Vulgalour's Vehicles - 10/03 Ignition Switch Woe

[JPB]

Liking the van idea. There's an R6 van mentioned - albeit briefly as it's shorter than one line from the pages (105-110) devoted to the car, clearly a favourite of the author since he doesn't half bang on about it - in "Renault: The Cars & The Charisma", an interesting and most comprehensive history of the company from the beginning while some time around the late '80s, as written by the most un-Frenchishly named J. Dewar McLintock. Better known for his editorship of Renault's house magazine "Autoworld", he apparently stays in Teddington, Middlesex and the ISBN of the book is 0-85059-582-7. I won't be parting with my copy any time soon but, if you should find a copy, grab it.
I reckon that the car may look best if left with four doors in the style of the Skoda Favorit, Lada and VW Caddy vans, where both rear side doors are still functional but have their window rebate left intact so the steel is simply not punched out in the first place, so welding in over the stepped section of that rebate would probably give you the most convincing appearance as well as being easier than welding flush around the edge. Sadly, although that the van existed is mentioned, there's no picture of an example and frankly, I think its size would have made it something of an anachronism since the R4 van, based on the same chassis, would have been larger in the load area thanks to the boxy style it had, unless of course that R6 van was similar but then the load area could only have matched that of the 4 so it's small wonder we don't see R6 vans on every street corner these days.



I have much sympathy with Chris' point of view, but in this case, as there was an "official" van then is it such a big no-no to make a replica, even if we don't know what it would have looked like? Besides; if you create the thing without welding up the door apertures, you're not making any irreversible changes and fitting the blanks on top of the window rebate's edge, you could even make them so that they'd bolt on with one hole in each corner of the lip, said bolts being welded invisibly inside the plates and the whole thing sealed with epoxy.

[vulgalour]

Normally I'd agree about modifying a rare car, it's not the done thing. I can restore it to factory settings, spend loads of time and effort and cash to achieve what Renault made in '75. Other people have already done that, there's already some excellent survivors out there.

I had an Ami van pointed out to me that had just the rear windows and handles panelled, the least amount of work to effect the conversion. It works very well, better than I'd anticipated. It's also easy to revert by a future owner.


Whatever I decide to do I won't be able to win.
Bought the car in the first place - why have you bothered? It's totally wrecked.
Restore the car just enough to keep it road legal and rot free - why aren't you bothering to restore it? Just scrap it
Restore the car nut and bolt to factory fresh - why have you bothered? It's not worth anything
Convert it to a van and restore it to a standard I'm comfortable with - why have you bothered? You've ruined it!

I get the same with the Princess, and the Xantia, and the Corsa... and every car I've ever owned in fact. You can't do right for doing wrong. So, I'll do whatever I can to get the Renault on the road and I'll enjoy it and sod the consequences.

[tractorman]

I suspect that there will be as many different opinions as there are people! Any vehicle that is not immaculate and is modified is "wrong" - I include my tractors and Land Rover (and Golf) in that! Most importantly (IMHO) is that it is the car's owner who decides what to do with the car and there is no real right or wrong in what is done - so long as legality and safety are not compromised!

While I reckon a nice restored car is preferred when they get to a certain age (and I don't know what that age is - I think it depends on the car), customisation is always an individual's choice. "American Hot Rod" was a great example of this: they chopped and modified all sorts of "valuable" classics to make their Hot Rods with variable results: again, this is subjective!

The only thing I would say is that a proper van will have heavier suspension, a proper load area and, ideally, something to stop the load smashing against the front seats (that can be uncomfortable when doing an emergency stop!). Using a car and keeping the seats (even if folded flat) won't make for a strong floor if you decide to get a new engine for the Princess (or whatever). That's the reason I bought the Land Rover - the Golf is a useless load-lugger!

Hmm, I must get more done on the Landy - I've only sorted the clutch and top radiator hose since November! However, it has been handy for storing timber and the cheap lean-to greenhouse while I have been doing "home improvements" during the cold season!

[vulgalour]

If I were just going for the aesthetic I'd dismiss the need of a B pillar cage, but since I'm looking at some level of practicality too I had already considered installing a false floor and cage and removing the rear bench. I'd also considered putting the rear bench in the front but with it not being adjustable I think it would likely annoy me, not to mention figuring out how to make it all fit.

I'd still like to really do the conversion, I think I'll have a better looking vehicle at the end of it. Thankfully, making the idea public has generated some useful information and helped me work it out a lot clearer. It's also generated some criticism as I suppose is to be expected. We shall see what happens next.

[kstrutt1]

I don't see why you would weld the rear doors, side load doors on vans are useful, to blank the windows I would bond a panel in the rebate, much neater, reversable and no distortion.

[vulgalour]

I think I had it in my head that to give a really nice smooth look to the end product, welding the doors shut would be the better way to do it. Having seen that Ami I'm not so sure it's necessary and as you say, bonding a panel in over the window holes is probably the most practical solution as it'll be easy, cheap and readily reversible. It's entirely possible I've over-thought this idea and I can get the same smart result possibly with no welding at all.

[Toledo Man]

Personally, I wouldn't do the van conversion but at the end of the day it is your car so you can do with it as you see fit. You can't please all the people all the time and anything which keeps it alive can only be a good thing.

[vulgalour]

The van idea is an idea. I think if I do it I'll definitely do it like the Ami. It looks the part without compromising practicality and is relatively easy to reverse which makes it very appealing to me. Welding up the doors will get a more professional looking end result but it'll also be an absolute chore to do properly.

Bank Holiday Monday, traditional for doing stuff you want to do just because. Who am I to argue with tradition? Started small by polishing the hubcaps, because I could. Interestingly, shortly after getting the Renault home I found a set of NOS hubcaps for 20 Euros on Leboncoin. I didn't buy them because I didn't think they were too important but now I'm thinking they could have been a wise purchase. Mind you, I have heard Leboncoin is difficult to buy from if you're not in France.


That wasn't too hard to do. I might do the bumpers to match. Next, turned my attention to the roof. If I'm to do anything with the Renault I need to sort this roof out. Shiny new set of hammer and dollies were available to me and with the headlining out I could hopefully get to the worst of the dents. First I had to work out how to remove the headlining itself, I was expecting it to be held into the window surrounds, which it was on the rear quarter lights that were easy to remove. At the back, there's a plastic strip attached to the headlining that pushes under a metal groove/flange thing, the only way I could see to remove this was to carefully pry it out with a screwdriver.


That meant I could work out how to remove the sides. Unlike the rear plastic strip, the sides have a barbed groove/flange that the headlining fabric is stuffed into, the fabric held up with conventional wires across the width of the shell. For the most part, it was easy to remove without damaging the fabric and I was well on track to removing the headlining whole which is not always possible.


Unfortunately as I got closer to the gutter damage over the front doors I found the headlining had gone brittle and no matter how careful I was it tore on the edges in a way I won't be able to repair or refit. Thankfully, it looks like an easy headlining to make and refit. The nail in the coffin for the original was when I got to the windscreen. I had intended to leave the windscreen in and carefully bundle the headlining on the dash board but as I free the fabric from near the A pillars it just tore across the line of the windscreen seal. I was expecting it so wasn't too mortified though I'm aware I'm now going to have to remove the windscreen if I want to fit a new headlining.


With the headlining out I could see if there was access to the dents. The good news is that there is some access, the bad news is that the strengthening beams get in the way so I'll need to get the slide hammer on some of the dents I can't get to. Managed to very nearly get the profile sorted on the drivers side, a light skim of filler after repairing the gutter should see this resolved nicely.


On the passenger side I had equally reasonable success with the roof skin pulling back in line with the strengthening beam as it ought. You can see the two obvious dents where the strengthening beam is in my way. Again, some filler will be inevitable on this, but not a great deal.




I had a go at straightening the stainless gutter trims, it's hard going but it's possible to get them reasonable again. I suspect I'll just hang on until I can find replacements. There wasn't anything more I could really do on the bodywork today, I was happy enough with this so far. Turned my attention instead to the engine which is still locked up. Decided to take the clutch off and it could really do with replacement as expected. Then I took the sump off to see what I could find in the bottom of the engine.


Sludge, and obvious water contamination. It does look like the bolts I need to get at the remove everything are all where I need them to be which is fortuitous so the next task will be to carefully dismantle and clean the innards, find out what damage there is and replace parts or engine as necessary. Oil strainer/pick-up is also pretty gunged up, I suspect it will clean up well enough.




I need Mike's experience with engines for me to be confident to undertake the next stage, it'll also be easier with two of us working on it. He was unavailable so I assessed what else I could do and realistically it wasn't a lot. The Princess could be turned around so I could make a start on the displacer replacement next weekend, but a flat battery and me being unable to push the car on my own put paid to that. Happily I did see that the condition of the metal replaced and waiting to be replaced hasn't deteriorated so I feel a little more comfortable about that for now.

I did a bit of panel beating on the bad rear wing of the Lancia Flavia but then ran into access problems. Ideally, I need to chop off the badly repaired bottom section of the rear wing, beat it back into shape off the car and then reweld it, a big job but one that deserves to be done right.

[vulgalour]

Over on the www.renault4.co.uk forum (aka Clementine's Renault 4 Garage), user mr-reno139 posted this fabulous Renault 6 picture.

[kstrutt1]

I would try to get a bit more of those dents out otherwise the filler will be bit too thick, I would use a slide hammer, idealy with one of the kits which allows you to weld a stud on, I have simulated this by welding an m6 bolt ( or several) on head first with a couple of tacks some people also drill a hole and use a large self tapper then weld up the hole up ( this can give local distortion though).