Vulgalour's Vehicles - 10/03 Ignition Switch Woe

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TerryG
Posts: 6757
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:54 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#321 Post by TerryG »

You could get some exhaust wrap from ebay and cover your manifold in it. that will help under bonnet temperatures considerably. The head shield I have on the mog is some 1/4" steel appropriately routed out between the carb and the manifold which deflects the exhaust heat nicely and didn't cost anything :)
I suspect you could buy / make either for less than the cost of the correct part but I could be wrong. I don't know what spares availability for you car is like.
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#322 Post by vulgalour »

Given the manifold's shape I don't think wrapping it would be that easy though the downpipes wouldn't be too tricky as they're two straight-ish pipes so it may be a good idea to do those and make a heat shield. I don't think you can buy the heatshields, unfortunately, it's one of those parts that are probably difficult to find and when you do they're not that great anyway, something made of metal would likely be far more resilient as per your 1/4" steel suggestion.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#323 Post by vulgalour »

Oil leak - now cured. I was genuinely surprised at this. Turns out the spacer block wasn't the source of the leak, that's ludicrously well fixed to the engine, instead it was where the pump joined the spacer block which only had the top two thirds sealed. Cleaned up all surfaces, new Loctite brand sealant and job done, not even a smear of oil anymore and no hot oil aroma in the cabin. There's also significantly less oil on the floor and placing a mat underneath the car revealed a few black old oil spots in the shape of three edges of the sump gasket so that's probably where that's coming from, just as well the new sump gasket arrived today.

Water leak - my water pump either died or came close to it today. When I'd sorted the oil leak above, I finally located the source of the water leak which is where the water pump seals against the block. I've ordered a new pump (£15) to replace it and I'm really hoping it resolves the leak properly and eliminates the horrible noise the pump has started to make, it sounds like the bearings aren't working or the impeller blades have got mangled, it's not nice.

New problems - air bubbles in the expansion bottle. Now, this has me worried. When I'd fixed the oil leak there was nothing untoward at all, no oil-water cross contamination and no vapour out the exhaust, all was well. But after driving for about 10 miles to do my errands and checking for oil leaks anew I found there was a steady stream of bubbles coming into the expansion bottle. My first thought was that it's the head gasket again, then after looking for a second opinion it was suggested it could in theory be the water pump sucking air in since it's also letting water out.

Since there's been no increase/loss of power and no cross contamination of water or oil I'm hoping it's not a head gasket failure, but if it is it I'll strip the head down fully, remove the sheared manifold bolt and sort out the partially stripped threads for another manifold bolt and one of the fuel pump bolts and get it all rebuilt properly. I'll drop and clean out the sump too so I can fit the new gasket to hopefully clear up the leaks. It's more work than I really want to get involved in, I didn't want to get wading into this level of work until after I'd moved house but it wouldn't do any harm to do it before hand so the car is in the best of health for when I need to make the journey north.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#324 Post by vulgalour »

Yesterday was one of those days, I thought today might be better. Get on and do some car work before work-work, right? Okay, let's check the beige one with a clear head shall we, see if we can find out what the score is.

First up, that water leak. You can see some spots of water on the bottom of the block here and a water stain running down it, on the floor you can see a water stain where it spat out a good amount on firing up.
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First thing I noticed was zero bubbles in the expansion bottle, no vapour, water or other moisture out of the exhaust either. Taking a sniff, coolant bottle has no aroma of exhaust gasses either so I think I can probably assume it's not a head gasket failure which is a good thing. Second thing I check was the top hose to the radiator which has no water in it at all. Then I noticed an intermittent eruption of bubbles in the coolant bottle as the engine warmed up but not a steady stream, much as you'd expect to see in a pan of water being heated but still the top hose was devoid of water and cold. I'm hoping this means that the water pump has failed and air is getting in the same place water is going out after all, it certainly seems more unlikely now that it's head gasket failure.

For some good news, here's the oil free under-the-fuel-pump area that hasn't leaked since I sealed it at all. Back of the block is drying out nicely too which no appearance of fresh oil so here's hoping I've sorted this out at least.
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Then I tried to sort out the red Princess. Even though I've put a can of fuel in, and the engine is very willing to attempt to start, it would appear there's not enough fuel or too much air in the fuel lines to actually get the car to fire up. Never mind, thought I, there are other things to do. Replaced the missing fuse and the old wiper blades for some less old blades that won't destroy the screen and decided to do a run through the switches and electrical stuff.

Dash clocks - don't come to life
Lights - don't work
Seatbelt warning light - ah, now that does work
Indicator - telltale comes on static, but indicators don't work
Foglight - doesn't work
Brake lights - nope
Reversing lights - nada
Wipers - nothing

So I've done something wrong somewhere, missed out an earth point, connected part of the dash incorrectly, I don't know and to be perfectly honest I was losing patience with myself and didn't want to take it out on the cars so I put it all away for now. I'll remove the dash and test the instruments and switches without the dashboard in the way to try and find the problem because this dashboard did work perfectly fine until I took it apart. I decided not to do the brakes today, I'll either have a go at those later today or tomorrow when it's properly my day off.

Renault? I'm still waiting on an update, the caretaker has been having to sort his own transport out just lately
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#325 Post by vulgalour »

Okay, today is about as lovely as it ever gets so I decided to have another go at the red Princess to get to the bottom of this issue with the electrics. Fuses checked, nothing appeared to be amiss, no signs of fuse failure. Fuses look a bit old, but other than that seem okay so I ticked that off the list.

Another run through everything to find no changes, as expected, and then a broggle around to try and find anything hanging loose or amiss to no avail. Out with the dashboard then to find out what's amiss. I'd already disconnected the fog light switch to see if it was the problem, but I don't think it is. This method I've seen on a couple of Princess looms now so I'm guessing it's the standard dealership/BL way of doing it.
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Nothing visually amiss behind the clocks, no damage that I can see and everything plugged where it should be.
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I think this extra feed with a fuse holder is for the radio, I can't remember exactly.Image

On the beige Princess, as annotated here, the blue wire with a fuse holder is the earth for the indicators. On the beige car, there is no fuse holder just a bare wire that earths via a screw into the dash, don't judge me it was like this when I bought the car and I found it when the old PYE tape deck was removed for servicing. On the red car, there's nothing anywhere to plug into this fuse holder, it just sort of floats around so I have no idea what to do with it.
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Behind the radio there's a multiplug with matchsticks stuck in some of the holes. Again, no idea but that's how it is.
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When I removed the dash there was very little resistance with the speedo cable so I gave it a bit of a tug to try and take up the slack... didn't go exactly as expected as there was zero resistance and it just sort of unspooled into the footwell.
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Much easier to sort that with the dashboard out and I've ordered a replacement which was only £10. Glad I found this now rather than when everything was together. So those fuses then. Because by now I could find nothing amiss, nothing unplugged, no oddness at all. Purely out of frustration I tried spinning the fuses and then found one had corroded through in such a way you couldn't see it had blown. Sometimes the corroded ends would make a contact, sometimes they wouldn't. Guess what, that fuse controls all the dashboard stuff too.
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Swapped it with another fuse in the box and hey presto working wipers!
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Rather than risking the other fuses doing the same I've pulled the lot and will acquire some new ones and some spares to keep with the car. I'm not disappointed I pulled the dash apart again to sort this only to find it was a blown fuse because it meant I found the speedo cable and now have the car prepared to put the new one in easier.

Last thing for today was finding a couple of bottles of cider vinegar in the back of the pantry so I've put the stubborn bit of the spare sphere in soak for 24-48 hours to try and get the rust to free off, I've seen other people get pretty good results with rusted together components.
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I think I'm going to buy some LHM next and get one of my contacts to come out and pump up the car far enough to free the jack at the front. I'm going to be making another attempt at freeing off all the pivot shafts again, I think the beige one is a bit freer than it was now because the back end has stopped sinking after some fairly vigourous use before the water pump conked out on me.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#326 Post by vulgalour »

Owners club sticker, took me too long to decide where to put this.
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Ace Café sticker, which I'd already decided on a location for but for some reason just didn't get around to fitting. I ought to get myself to the Ace one of these days, feels a teensy bit fraudulent having one of their stickers in the window and not having been there but I shall view it as an incentive.
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vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#327 Post by vulgalour »

Right, feel okay today so I decided to get on with water pump replacement. Bought a NOS Unipart item from these guys: http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/jolly_good_car_spares_ltd who have been an excellent source of quality parts at very good prices and post stuff out really quickly with decent packaging. Try them out, I think they're neat.

Old pump removal was fairly straightforward, if you're careful you don't have to remove the timing belt, but undoing the bolts on the pump pulley was a little more difficult as they were extremely tight. Dad and neighbour showed me how to brace a spanner across two of the bolt heads while undoing a third, car in first gear to provide resistance. The same technique helps with doing them up again afterwards. You have to remove the pulley to remove the pump and you have to swap the pulley from the old pump to the new one.

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With the pump, auxilliary belt and timing belt tensioner removed I could give everything a thorough degrease before rebuilding and find any additional leaks that might be hiding. Remember, I didn't take the head apart when I removed it from this engine to do the head gasket like I did on the other Princess, so I wasn't too surprised to find that there is fresh oil around the head behind the cam sprocket, that means the seal there has likely gone hard. Another job for another day, it'll mean doing the head again and stripping everything down, pretty involved and not something that's desperately in need of doing right now.

Old pump off then, found that it had a slightly gritty bearing and had definitely been leaking around a couple of bolt holes. There was also some corrosion on the face of the block where the water was leaking out so that's all been cleaned up along with as much of a degrease as I could do without dismantling the entire side of the engine. There was a lot of very crusty old oil all over this side.
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Likewise the belt cover and belt tensioner were really crusted up with oil, so much so it looked like very bad brush painting (some of the state of the belt cover is bad brush painting, to be fair). New pump went on easily, there's a little bit of flash rusting on the pulley mounting surface, but it rubbed off with a finger tip so I'm not worried about that, the rest of the pump is in excellent condition as you'd expect.
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Belts tensioned properly, system refilled with water, quite a bit of air burped out and fired up the car. The first thing I noticed was the funny dubbadubba noise I'd developed along with the bubbles in the expansion bottle had now gone. There's a bit of belt whine and the auxilliary belt could ideally do with being replaced as it looks like it's getting on a bit and starting to go a little hard. Temperature in the pipes is now even and the car gets up to temperature promptly but the jury is still out as to whether or not the fan switch has stopped working as I've not managed to get the engine hot enough for it to turn on
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I really need a new thermostat housing, I'm still looking for one and the last time they were available I had no money to buy one. The one I've got leaks intermittently and has now, helpfully, started leaking from the base. This is possibly due to the coolant system circulating and pressurising properly and the water is now looking for the next easiest escape route.

I've got a spare factory radiator fan so I may put that on if it's any good, I'm the only Princess owner I know running a non-standard fan and the only one that's needed to but I'm also the only one that seems to have had so many problems getting to the bottom of the all the engine issues I've had.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#328 Post by vulgalour »

More lovely weather means I want to make more effort to get the red Princess MoT ready and make up for lost time. However, I'm beginning to feel like this car is fighting me, all little things but it's annoying when you're so close to being sorted to feel so far away from being ready.

Started small, put the brand new fuses in and a couple of spares in the holder in the fuse box lid.
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Then decided to do the speedometer cable because that should be straightforward. I hadn't counted on the cable connector being in a horrible location or that it would be plastered in lithium grease making this the most unpleasant and difficult Princess job I've had to do so far. For refitting there was no way to see what I was doing and the fine thread meant cross-threading was a very real risk, but I prevailed and got it fitted.
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Found that the other end plugged much better to the dash and didn't feel as insecure as the old cable so replacement was wise I reckon.
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Dropped the dash into place after this but didn't screw it down, I wanted to find out what would and wouldn't work. I now have working hazards but not on the passenger side indicators (but weirdly the side repeater that side does work), choke telltale works, handbrake light works, seatbelt light works. I've been told the random blue wire is the factory earth for the foglights but it won't reach the switch on the loom so I'll be getting creative with connectors and whatever and Dad's expertise in electrics to resolve this. I'm fairly confident the issue with the dash and the lights is now just down to a lack of proper earth and once resolved all will be well.

Next to resolve the lack of firing. Sucked the air out of the fuel line, got a mouthful of varnish-flavoured fuel for my trouble. Pump is working, carb is working, but there's barely any fuel so I reckon I need to put a few more gallons in to resolve this. No visible leaks or wetness on fuel lines or tank so I don't think there's a problem there. What fuel is in the tank is no longer cloudy but is still a horrible colour and odour.
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Good, that's a few things ticked and to resolve. I topped up the washer bottle to test it, assumed it was good and put screenwash in and then found it was leaking. Tested anyway and found the washer pump works well and I've got one washer jet of the four to unblock. Removed the bottle no bother and decanted the contents into another container so it wasn't wasted, found it was leaking where the bracket fits and has been fixed previously with body filler and chewing gum, ffs. Tried to remove the washer jet pipe and instead of cutting it free as I've done before, I gave it a bit of a tug and a wiggle and it broke.
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Well done me. I should have stopped at this point, but I didn't. Instead I checked the front end to find what appears to be reasonable (if slightly surface rusty) discs and a good amount of meat left on the pads, the brakes were surprisingly good when it was rolled off the trailer and when I drove it up and down the drive so this is reassuring.
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Then I checked the track rod end and I now know why the tread on half of two tyres is completely gone. That's another £20 for TREs and £15-30 for tracking to budget for.
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Back wheels off, car up on axle stands because I now have an improvised jack handle so I can, and every intention to "just quickly replace the rebound straps".
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There's a clip and a roll pin at the top and one on the trailing arm. Top ones were a bugger to shift but they went eventually with a combination of screwdrivers, pliers, hammer, WD40 and swearing.
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Thump, thump, tweak, tweak, pin comes loose and... oh.
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Well it's only a little hole, maybe the other side will be better.
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Never mind, it's just a little bit of welding, the corrosion isn't seriously advanced even though it's likely an MoT fail area. I'll put the straps on anyway and deal with it later. Went pretty smoothly, let the strap take the weight of the trailing arm by lowering the jack carefully and BANG.
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FFS.


Downed tools. I'm not touching anything else on this car today, for fear I break something expensive. The straps are brand new rather than NOS and I'm really, really annoyed about them breaking like that. On closer inspection it turns out no strengthening webbing had been moulded into the rubber on the bottom eyelet so as soon as it took the weight of the trailing arm, the strength of the suspension just pulled the roll pin straight through the rubber as though it was made of Brie. I bought the straps so long ago that I can't even return them.

I'll keep plugging away, I'll try and sort the brakes out tomorrow, I didn't get that far today. I don't think this one will be ready in time to go in for an MoT at the same time as the beige one and I'm concerned that I might not meet the mid-May deadline now.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#329 Post by vulgalour »

Having cleaned up the washer bottle I can repair it with a dribble of resin or glue or similar, it's a smaller hole than the bad repair made it look which is nice.

MoT shopping list:
Rebound straps - £16 a pair
Track rod ends - £20 a pair
Tracking - £15-30 (depends where I take it and how much of an arse it is to sort)
Washer pump - £2.95
Suspension sphere (if I can't salvage the good one I have) - £40+
Tyres (part worns) and balancing x5 - £150ish (I can avoid this by just swapping wheels with the other Princess, of course)
3xpendable
Posts: 814
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:03 am

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#330 Post by 3xpendable »

vulgalour wrote: On closer inspection it turns out no strengthening webbing had been moulded into the rubber on the bottom eyelet so as soon as it took the weight of the trailing arm, the strength of the suspension just pulled the roll pin straight through the rubber as though it was made of Brie. I bought the straps so long ago that I can't even return them.
Seems to be the norm these days, there's been a lot of complaints especially in the US with MGB's and the new rebound straps breaking. Best bet is to fit some old ones if you can find them, thats what I'm doing with my rebuild. Taking the serviceable straps off my donor car.
2013 Dodge Durango R/T
2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt.
1965 Ford Anglia 106e Estate (Wagon). LHD.
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