Practically Classics Forum

I just handed over 615 Euro to tax my 1992 Merc 190 2.0L diesel for a year. I am then expected to pay 55% tax on every litre of fuel I put into it, 21%VAT on my insurance & anything else I need to buy for it, tolls to drive it on any of the decent roads.......

VED
for my TD5 Defender is £210 Per year
And for my BGT
and for my 827
and for my Mg Maestro

VAT is 20% on everything needed to keep them running and on the road.
Fuel tax here is at least 63% (duty and VAT combined)

Taken from "WHAT PRICE" Web site. before the VAT rise to 20%

Based on 1 litre of Petrol

* Petrol Fuel Duty - 48.35p
* VAT (17.5%) - 14.9p
* Refinery Petrol Costs - 31.75p
* Forecourt Costs - 3p
* Forecourt Profit - 2p

This means that the forecourt is 5%, the oil cost is ~32% and taxation ~63% of the total cost:

http://www.whatprice.co.uk

MY 2002 Golf diesel was £125, the tractors are all Historic Vehicles, so cost nothing. Car insurance was £225 in January, Tractor insurance about £65 (for all three). Our neighbour has a one year old Ka - it's about £35 to tax!

Interesting how, when duty goes up, the filling stations put prices up straight away. But when it goes down, they say that they have already paid at duty the higher rate and have to wait until the tanks are refilled and, if they have had a delivery the day before the budget (with increased cost) they put the price up and then apply the duty cut so it stays the same!

If fuel duty is anything like VAT, it's paid on the takings and duty paid on supplies is reclaimed (Effectively the end customer pays all the VAT and the seller pays VAT only on the profit).

I have felt for a long time that car tax could be combined with fuel duty, so that those who use most pay most. However, whilst we have road tax and exemption for historics, I feel we should have rolling exemption for historics (Though perhaps 30 year, not 25). The Brownised version of historic tax, where history apparently stood still on 31 December 1972, is illogical and represents the petty dislike, which Brown has for classic cars.

At present, some of the smallest moderns get free road tax and since most of them will be bean tins, within ten years, I feel that thirty year old cars should also get free tax, in recognition of the return those cars have achieved, on the resources used to make them. The modern tax system seems to only consider the emissions, that are alleged to go out of the exhaust but not those that go up the factory chimney (Or the timescale between when said emissions went up the chimney and when the emissions of the melting down process are emitted).

As to me personally, I am in the odd position whereby my "Runabout car" is tax exempt but my MGs are post 1972 and subject to road tax. The MG Midget is in the under 1500 cc bracket and pretty cheap, whereas the V8 costs quite a bit more. I tend to tax one from April to September and the other from June to November.

Martin Evans wrote: I have felt for a long time that car tax could be combined with fuel duty, so that those who use most pay most.

I couldn't agree more with this, I think it's the fairest way. They do it in Australia I think?

Martin Evans wrote: I feel we should have rolling exemption for historics (Though perhaps 30 year, not 25). The Brownised version of historic tax, where history apparently stood still on 31 December 1972, is illogical and represents the petty dislike, which Brown has for classic cars.

This is the only area where I think Ireland has a better set-up than the UK. We have a rolling 30 year-old exemption. It's cheap, not free, 50Euro I think, I haven't got as far as buying it yet.
Ireland has also recently introduced a roadworthiness check for newly registered classics (imports) with some periodic testing on the cards for classics.

pryantcc wrote: I couldn't agree more with this, I think it's the fairest way. They do it in Australia I think?

No, we pay excise tax and GST (VAT) on our fuel. But we still pay registration fees and compulsory third party personal injury insurance.

The registration fees vary by state and each state also has different categories. As a rough guide it costs about GBP 300-350 to register a car for daily use for a year in my home state. That includes the compulsory Third Party Property.

If your car is over 25 years old you can select Historic registration which gives you use on any 45 or 90 days of the year use you choose via a logbook system. It costs about 40 or 70 GBP respectively. That also includes the compulsory insurance.

There is no annual inspection, we only need to get an Roadworthy Certificate when the car changes hands or is re-registered after being unregistered for more than three months.

BTW: Fuel here is currently about 60 pence a litre, including taxes.

But remember, our average wage is lower than in the UK.

I live near NY City in New Jersey.

Right I am paying, in Northern New Jersey, the equivalent of 53-57p per liter, depending on what grade of fuel ($3.25-3.49/US Gallon).

We don't have road tax here, registration costs about $75 a year, we no longer have a safety inspection, emissions testing is required once a car is 4 years old, and every 2 years afterwards. If you go to the state-run facilities, emissions testing is free.

We do have a lot of toll roads though, about half of the motorways around here are tolled, crossing bridges into NYC can be expensive, a round trip to, say, JFK Airport from my house, which is about 27 miles each way, costs $19 cash in tolls and about $14 if I use an EZ-Pass electronic tag.

So while fuel can be a lot cheaper, the cost per mile isn't always as cheap as people think.

If I register my cars as classics, the plates are cheaper ($44 for 3 years) but you are only allowed to drive the car to shows, parades, etc. You can't use the car for regular use.

we no longer have a safety inspection, emissions testing is required once a car is 4 years old, and every 2 years afterwards.

Is that why the cars on pimp my ride were always in such a dreadful state? most of them were what would be considered scrapyard fodder over here

Why no safety inspection? We have the annual MOT here and a good thing to- it means that at least once a year people are forced to ensure that they have decent brakes, tyres and suspension and that wheels are not going to part company with axles and seatbelt mounts aren't going to tear out in a crash. The last time I was in New York I was actually asked for ID in a bar to prove my age, apparently undercover ATF inspectors were rumoured to be about- it seems odd that a state where middle aged people need to prove their age before buying beer doesn't have a basic car safety test, and I've always found it odd that they use those complex roadside DUI tests, walking lines and doing the alphabet backwards, etc, rather than just using a breathalyser and straight off to the nick if they fail like our coppers do!

Only one state or territory in Australia has an annual roadworthy inspection - New South Wales. The irony is there's is probably the easiest one to pass. No state has any form of emissions test here yet.

Every now and again they have a big clampdown on unroadworthy cars in Victoria. The cops go around awarding yellow defect stickers (the dreaded "canary") on cars they deem unroadworthy. Usually they only pick on cars with obvious faults such as lots of rust, illegal modifications or bald tyres.

Cheers,

mr rusty wrote:

we no longer have a safety inspection, emissions testing is required once a car is 4 years old, and every 2 years afterwards.

Is that why the cars on pimp my ride were always in such a dreadful state? most of them were what would be considered scrapyard fodder over here

Why no safety inspection? We have the annual MOT here and a good thing to- it means that at least once a year people are forced to ensure that they have decent brakes, tyres and suspension and that wheels are not going to part company with axles and seatbelt mounts aren't going to tear out in a crash. The last time I was in New York I was actually asked for ID in a bar to prove my age, apparently undercover ATF inspectors were rumoured to be about- it seems odd that a state where middle aged people need to prove their age before buying beer doesn't have a basic car safety test, and I've always found it odd that they use those complex roadside DUI tests, walking lines and doing the alphabet backwards, etc, rather than just using a breathalyser and straight off to the nick if they fail like our coppers do!

New York still has a safety inspection, I live in New Jersey. Why did they drop it? Cost. Also, there's less older cars on the road around here is the logic which is nonsense.

Oh, and the field sobriety tests are simple, they're to prove probable cause.

Big difference over here is that we don't use speed cameras, the Police tend to patrol the roads themselves.