Practically Classics Forum

Given the recent press coverage, Opels huge losses and the tragic demise of Saab is there really any future for Vauxhall in this country?

GM don't seem to give a damn about anything outside of the US and have made no money in Europe for years - doesn't bode well

The real shame was that they were makng money and giving Ford a run for there money - Cavalier was a fab car- better than the Sierra imho and the Astra was better than the then current Escort, again imho.

Then it all went wrong - the Vectra was dreadful - quite simply the worst car I, and several colleagues, have ever had and our Fleet Manager felt the same - Vauxhall removed from the list and never returned - Now we all use Ford or VAG product

Then theres the Astra - was a fab car- Im told the new one is ok but the model before? My brother had one, sold it, bought a Focus and wouldn't go back
Another mate did the same and bought a Golf - again wouldn't by another Vauxhall

I do have to wonder if GM have deliberatley allowed them to produce rubbish in recent years - sale will continue to drop and they can them close them down.

Won't happen? Think SAAB.........

richardtaylor wrote:Won't happen? Think SAAB.........

SAAB was a very different case, IMO. Firstly they didn't have a small car at a time when they were essential for survival. Secondly, they ignored the whole ethos of badge engineering and spent too much money turning GMs into SAABs instead of just moderately rebranding them.

What I find interesting is GM has removed the whole segregations of markets thing.

It used to be one brand was used in each country for all GM products. So Vauxhalls in the UK, Opels in Europe, Holdens in ANZ etc. It didn't matter if it was built in the UK, EU, Japan, wherever, it was badged as the local GM brand.

Now it's open slather. I can buy the same 4x4 utility as a Holden Colorado or an Isuzu D-Max. They are built in the same plant, have the same features, only the badges differ. The local dealers are 300m from each other.

Soon we will be able to buy from an Opel dealer for the firs time in Aus. So the same happens again - an Opel Corsa or a Holden Barina will be the same car.

Now this sort of shennanigans of competing against itself didn't work for BL, so it can't be good for GM!

For some reason, it's always been possible to buy either the Opel or the Vauxhall-badged version of a car in the RoI and some areas of Scotland. This has meant that Novas and the otherwise identical Corsa A are present on the roads in similar numbers, as are Asconas & Cavaliers of the '90s, Vaauxhall Omegas & Opel Omegas plus Bedford Blitz-branded commercials alongside Bedfords with the Vauxhall-style badging. Back during the Corsa A's showroom lifespan, the sheep went for the Nova version, but those who thought that they were being different went for Corsas. Yup, immensely different.

Seems quite a good business strategy to me. Have a customer who doesn't like Vauxhalls? No problem, just sell 'em an Opel. It works for VW/Skoda/Seat. I imagine that aspect worked for BMC too, marketing the 1100/1300 at different people by calling them Austins, MGs, Rileys, etc.
BL's real trouble came when they had completely different cars competing for the same market share, like the Triumph 2000 and Rover P6.
Not that I'm a fan of badge engineering, but it does make financial sense.

I saw this tread and it got me thinking - I have never owned a Vauxall car in my life I recon I have owned at least one of all or most other mainstream makers but never a Vauxall. I worked on plenty in my youth when I did my apprenticeship and I can never remember thinking that I would like to own one - strange isnt it! The only time I ever came close was after driving a Mk1 Astra GTE - that was about the only one that got my interest. Whenever I think of Vauxall's I think old men with pipes and slippers

Minxy wrote:Whenever I think of Vauxall's I think old men with pipes and slippers

Whenever I think of Vauxhall I think of spotty teenagers in "modified" Corsas. I'd have a Lotus Carlton. None of their modern stuff is good enough to tempt me away from Ford.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

richardtaylor wrote:Won't happen? Think SAAB.........

SAAB was a very different case, IMO. Firstly they didn't have a small car at a time when they were essential for survival. Secondly, they ignored the whole ethos of badge engineering and spent too much money turning GMs into SAABs instead of just moderately rebranding them.

It is not solely 'small car needed'. Badge engineering, well BL tried that and failed spectacularly!

Saab, like Volvo, stuck to their 'system', they both had balls... But both suffered, Volvo tried with the 300 and 400 series, which bought them some time as an independant .

Sadly , SAAB has gone and Vovlo really is no longer true to their original intentions. That said, the likes of Renault, Citroen and Peugeot, roll on regardless... Like em or not they are here to stay! Why? Because the French system 'looks after their own'. Buy a French car in France, tax is lower. Want to get a French car fixed in France? Any garage can do it , want to get your Merc, or Volvo fixed, ..... Go to the Maindealer !

In short, the French are 'insular' (sp) they look after their own , I guess there are other countries who have a similar attitude.... If UK had the same attitude back in the 60's, maybe, just maybe those classic marques such as Rover and Austin, and Hilman (think Renault, Pug and Citroen) would still be.....

My mother had a couple of Nova 1.0s, which weren't bad little cars (And unlike most modern stuff, didn't look like a dog turd with wheels...it was also straightforward to work on). I drove a couple of Mk 2 Astra SRi/GTE type things. The had a fair turn of speed but I felt the Golf GTI and Peugoet 205 GTI of the time handled better. The only Vauxhalls, that interest me offhand, would be the Prince Henry and the Velox.............but the original Velox



As to the issue at hand, I wonder just how much is made here these days (My mother's first Nova, it turned out, was made in Spain; not sure about the second one). I suppose that's the risk when something is foreign owned, though even British companies get things made abroad (My mother bought a new Hotpoint cooker and that had made in Poland on the back .....I think my old Tricity is British). How safe are Ford's UK factories

Paul240480 wrote:

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

richardtaylor wrote:Won't happen? Think SAAB.........

SAAB was a very different case, IMO. Firstly they didn't have a small car at a time when they were essential for survival. Secondly, they ignored the whole ethos of badge engineering and spent too much money turning GMs into SAABs instead of just moderately rebranding them.

It is not solely 'small car needed'. Badge engineering, well BL tried that and failed spectacularly!

Saab, like Volvo, stuck to their 'system', they both had balls...

That's exactly what I mean. Saab were given a Vectra and told to stick some SAAB badges on it, but redesigned the whole car instead. That might have been an admirable sign of balls but was hardly going to impress GM who held the purse-strings. Hence the result.

As for BL failing at badge engineering, I'm not convinced. Back in the sixties and seventies, they practically invented the concept and it worked for them until Japan came on the scene.