Vulgalour's Vehicles - 10/03 Ignition Switch Woe

Post pictures and stories about your cars both present and past. Also post up "blogs" on your restoration projects - the more pictures the better! Note: blog-type threads often get few replies, but are often read by many members, and provide interest and motivation to other enthusiasts so don't be disappointed if you don't get many replies.
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vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#611 Post by vulgalour »

Was at the unit today so it's time to have another go at getting this engine out along with some other jobs. Car was still nice and dry inside and as a bonus there was no longer water getting in under the rear seats, just one little puddle on the boot floor from the tailgate. I'm happy that I'm resolving the water leak issues as a result of that.

Even so, I did notice there was a drip of water clinging to the inside of the rear passenger door surround inside the car. Prised the trim off and got busy with the wire wheel on the gutter to explore more fully. At the front it was still as bad as it was, drier now and more stable by the look of things.
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Above the drip of water what started as a small hole became an explosion of rust dust and a large portion of the gutter disappeared. That was a bit disheartening.
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I spent some time on the driver's side gutter too, that had the same perforation to the flat surface but the majority of the vertical portion of the gutter and roof were still intact. I applied some paint to keep things stable and the hole that had appeared in the roof edge on the passenger side now has a duct tape patch for the short term.
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Not too bad though, it's repairable. Our neighbouring mechanic and general car fettler had a good look and a prod and seemed confident it was all repairable just fiddly and time consuming. He also had the inspired suggestion of using seam sealer to protect and stabilise the gutters until I can get them properly repaired, it's not a long term fix but it should prevent water getting in where it's not wanted in the short term.
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Foolishly, I then wanted to explore what I suspected was some filler on one of the rear door jambs. I know better than to prod but I prod anyway.
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Hmm... rivets. There was a smell too, I've encountered it a couple of times on ex-farm cars. There's this bizarre habit of mixing dung with filler to get a stronger repair but in very small quantities, the smell that comes off is quite unique. Quite a lot of filler was scooped on this side.
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When it was cleaned back it look like the car had been armour plated. I'm guessing there's not a lot of metal left under this patch and it will need repairing properly in the future. For now it's solid enough, I've chased some rust out and applied paint, but not before investigating a suspicious bleb on the rear arch adjacent, revealing a large shallow dent and more pin holes.
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Right then, let's check the other side because there's cracks and strange circles over there. Same story, but no dung-filler this time, just unadulterated white resiny powder. I did have one large problem in that I couldn't remove the latch on this side which has had the strange star head fittings replaced with regular cross head bolts, one of which just turns and turns.
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It wasn't unexpected to find repairs like this on this car but I still wasn't happy about it because it gives me that bit more work to do further down the line. It could have been a lot worse, normally when you chase out a lot of filler there's nothing underneath bar some brown lace. The other big job today was the engine removal, this could have gone better if the instructions in the Haynes book had been better than "just take out the engine" because we ended up unbolting the mounts in a really stupid way and added more time to this job than we should have.
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The engine bay looks nice and solid and tidy and the car is comically light without the engine and gearbox in there. Since all the ball joints are worn out the easiest way to remove them was to saw through the posts on them to get the driveshafts out. One had been replaced at some point but the other three were all still sporting rivets and all the boots had perished or split.

The engine and gearbox is tiny and weighs very little, a welcome thing for moving it from outside to in the unit. I'll find out if this engine is any good when I get it taken apart and find out what exactly is stuck. I've had a surprising number of offers for replacement engines if need be and depending on cost it may make more sense just to replace this unit rather than rebuild it, we shall see.
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That's all for today. Not sure when I'm working on the car again, contracted an absolutely killer cold just as we were getting the engine out so I'm taking things a bit easy for the rest of today and tomorrow.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#612 Post by vulgalour »

I've had various offers of lights and engines and bits and bobs, it's proving surprisingly easy to find people with parts to help this little car out and that's a super thing, big grins. Unfortunately, the plight of self-employment means I'm stuck on doing anything about most of these offers until my next batch of work is paid for. Doesn't mean I can't get jobs done on the Renault without spending cash, still lots of stuff to be getting on with.

Yesterday I took the end plate off the engine in the hope that I'd be able to get to a big nut on the crankshaft and get some movement in it. No such luck, but a rather worrying appearance of what look like dried out emulsified oil. Camshaft is nice and free so no worries there.
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Then I tried, and utterly failed, to lift the engine to drain out the oil from the sump plug. A strap slipped and it all just canted over and poured various liquids all over the floor. Didn't even have enough cat litter to mop it all up properly, sacked it off as a bad job and went home.
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Today, I went back in to the unit with Mike, a second pair of hands was very welcome at times and meant I got to drain the oil out successfully. Except what came out had the appearance and consistency of weak gravy. Didn't smell as appealing. Evidence of emulsified oil and a vague smell of petrol which was a little odd.
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After reading the Haynes booklet of lies and deceit I decided to just apply logic to removing the gearbox from the engine. Seriously, the instructions in this manual are appalling, every time I try and get help it has such useful information as "just remove the gearbox." and when looking for how there are no pictures, there are no instructions just another vague statement... infuriating. Anyway, living in the bell housing was a really big spider.
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Clutch lever freed off nicely after a little effort and the internals look in reasonably good order. There is corrosion on the thrust bearing and I've not yet taken the clutch off to inspect it. The splines on the shaft here are really good so I'm pleased about that. There were quite a few cobwebs in here too, most of which just sorted of floated away when the engine and gearbox were parted from one another.
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"The gearbox can be easily lifted by one person, even if bending quite low." So I tried to pick it up, thinking it would weigh nothing and managed to nearly headbutt the gear lever. THANKS HAYNES. It requires some effort to pick up, it weighs a small amount, it is not floaty light.
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Got busy with the degreaser on the engine, was assaulted with the aroma of more animal dung as I was cleaning the outside of the sump. Lovely. Very little paint left on the block but no evidence of serious oil leaks just lots of storage detritus.
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Set that aside for the day and took a couple of pictures to illustrate a couple of worn out bushes on the front shock absorbers. I'm guessing these will be easy enough to source. They're pretty worn out, especially on the driver's side. Brake pads definitely need replacing too, not a lot of material left on them. Calipers look like they should clean up fine once removed from the car.
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Mike also showed me how to safely test the starter motor which, after an initial reluctance to do much, appears to work perfectly fine engaging and disengaging as it ought. Whether it's good enough to work on the engine not just on the bench remains to be seen. Not sure how to test the alternator.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#613 Post by vulgalour »

Not much has happened since the last update, Princess is still sat in the corner waiting her turn, Xantia continues to be excellent and the Corsa now belongs to Mike and is being used as his daily proving itself competent and willing since it's first trip in his ownership was to the London area and back.

The Renault...

Exhaust - acquired from a chap in Leeds for £60. Full system from (but not including) the manifold to the very tip of the tail pipe.

Headlights - made contact with the chap that has a pair which he'll be sending over in the near future. Quite a relief to have secured these, more so when they arrive.

Water - there appears to be no water getting in or leaking out of the car now so it would appear things are watertight

Gutters - you can buy sections of gutter for VW Type 2 that looks similar, if not identical, to those found on the Renault. I've also found someone willing and able to do the gutter repairs from scratch, offering him sections of preformed gutter to work with should reduce the time and the cost considerably. It's not a repair I feel confident to undertake myself just yet.

Engine - Not had opportunity to get any further with it. The bores have been soaking in Plusgas, I haven't got around to purchasing a diesel jerry can and since I'm running the Xantia on veg oil I can't syphon fuel off to use to this end either.

Tyres - sourced a good set of second hand ones from a family friend which are available once he's got his project far enough to swap the new wheels on. Another French car helping out here as the tyres come from an AX.

All this means there hasn't been much in the way of visible progress at all lately. The project is ticking over in the background.
vulgalour
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#614 Post by vulgalour »

Nugget update time!

Mike and Nugget have been bonding quite well, and aside from it being so quiet he's nearly run a few pedestrians over who didn't hear him coming, all has been good. I never got around to giving the interior a full deep clean so never got to the bottom of what I thought was a very strong air freshener smell. Turns out it was some lady spray, now evicted. Mike found this wedged under the passenger seat when he managed to lose his keys down the seat somehow.
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We knew that water was getting in via a split hose to the rear washer jet, easiest solution to that has been not to use the rear washer jet. Next was to investigate. It's been putting water down both sunroof drain tubes making it look like the fault was other than where it really was.
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Then Mike took the interior trim apart to investigate a bit further. Everything was good until the boot lip plastic trim was removed and then this was found.
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If we're lucky it'll be the same deal as the sills and door corner and a fresh lick of paint will see it right. Out with the flapwheel and wire brush...
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Oh...
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Double oh...
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Not to worry, it's an easy to access area and a flat repair that's hidden so we'll get it welded up. For now as you can see it's got some Zinc 182 sprayed on it just to keep things in stasis until the bad metal is chopped out and nice new metal let in. This is probably down to the water from the split washer jet pipe pooling under the trim unseen as it appears to have rotted from the outside in rather than the inside out.

In more positive news, we got the front wiper arms resprayed as I was doing the rear wiper for the Xantia.
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Previously the wiper arms looked a bit scabby with the new wipers fitted, now it's much smarter.
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Mike's also taken the speakers out, turns out the old paper cones in the front had gone which is why there was distortion on the music and radio, he's ordered some modern replacements to go in the holes. There's a few other things Mike is going to get done like having the seats shampooed and replacing the dog-scratched trim items inside the car but he promises he's not going to go overboard with looking after Nugget. Seems to me he's rather taken with the little car.

Oh, and the rear wiper on the Xantia is now much improved, as you can see here.
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vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#615 Post by vulgalour »

Post-dentist malaise today, not sure if it's down to a bad reaction to the anaesthetic or just a bit of ick that I've contracted, leaving me feeling pretty run down and tired at any rate. So I'm sat here watching old episodes of Fast 'N Loud and it's given me some thoughts for the Renault. Namely, I'm going to get the body rubbed down and given a fresh coat of lacquer below the gutter line. Above the gutter line there's going to be a lot of visible repair, so I reckon a contrast paint would be super for the entire roof and around the windscreen, either a flat colour or something ridiculous.

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The car is solid enough to pull this sort of thing off and if I get the body lacquered I do keep the majority of the wear and tear I like without it getting worse. Lot of elbow grease to do it, but shouldn't be too expensive. Should be interesting to see it applied to a tiny French car rather than a massive 60s station wagon too, I think the 6 has the right sort of styling to pull it off sucessfully.
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Mitsuru
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Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#616 Post by Mitsuru »

I'm Diabetic,& disabled BUT!! NOT DEAD YET!!
vulgalour
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#617 Post by vulgalour »

Proof that while fashion is fleeting, style stays the course. :thumbs:

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There's still no progress to report on the oldies so you'll have to make to with my Youngtimers (as the Germans call them) this time. Yesterday, I finally got the right tool to sort out the seat base on the driver's seat in the Xantia. On the Peugeot seats there are only 4 long bolts holding the cradle to the frame so I started with that rather than removing the seat from the Xantia, just in case. Fortunately, there are 8 holes in the seat frame where you need them to accept the shorter Xantia bolts. You can see the seat bolts here on the Peugeot seat in gold.

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Getting in at the 8 black-ish bolts on the Xantia seat is much more difficult. I contrived this medley of tools to get in at them and only skinned my knuckles several times.
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After not too long I had both seats stripped and the relevant bits swapped over. Happily, once refitted the airbag system now works as it should with the light illuminating when ignition is on and extinguishing when the engine starts.
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You can't fit the Peugeot trims over the Xantia frame where the pretensioner bolts are, so you have to put the Xantia one on.
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Same with the seat height adjuster. Happily the seat isn't too different a shape to prohibit fitting. Interestingly, with the Peugeot seats I don't have to have the height adjuster all the way to the top to be comfortable like I did with the Xantia seat which makes getting my knees under the dash that much easier.
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Today gave the car its weekly wash and inspection. I can't decide if the bubbles and spiders around the roof bars is getting worse or I'm obsessing about it more. I can decide it needs sorting out soon and now I have these better torx keys I got for the seats I stand a chance of being able to remove the roof rails. Not looking forward to what I might find underneath them, though with the weather improving it's a more sensible time to crack on with it.
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The back driver's side is the worst, the paint has actually split here recently letting the rust out.
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Continued looking for trouble and found some stonechip damage on the rear arch.
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Fresh ones on the bonnet and grille too.
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Then this. I hate this sort of damage the most because it's not related to age or driving, it's someone else's carelessness. Looks like someone's jabbed a key in or something similar and it's gone right down to the metal. Quite recently done by the looks of it too.
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Finally, the primary reason I bought that zebra tape paid off and I really like how this frame has turned out. This is a tiny watercolour miniature I did of a zebra which has pride of place in the front hall. It's also a terrible photograph.
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I guess my next spend on the Xantia is going to be some more white paint and some brave pills to get the roof sorted out. It'll be worth doing.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#618 Post by vulgalour »

In Nugget news, Mike got the rear panel welded up for the princely sum of £40. He also fitted a new one-way valve for the rear washer jet curing the problem with the split hose. And the speakers are now all replaced with brand new ones to replaced the damaged originals. He had a bit of fun with fitting a power socket because there wasn't even any factory wiring for one (option box not ticked) but now has one in the car done properly thanks to his training in electrics. Nugget continues to be reliable and Mike seems much happier now these bits are sorted out.


The repair doesn't need to be invisible, just solid, as it's hidden with a trim.
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I didn't have the Caribic Blue to hand so, because it's hidden, went with the Pageant Blue I did have to keep things all waterproof and stop it going rusty again.
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Renault and Princess progress is on hold while I save up for a new computer which, since I use it for everything, is a teensy bit more important right now.
vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#619 Post by vulgalour »

It was suggested recently by a friend that the 6 would make a neat little van. I had a very quick play on Photoshop and it turns out said friend was quite correct and I'm very taken with the idea.
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Puts me in mind somewhat of a Simca 1100.
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I have a lot of love for little vans and, to my knowledge, there never was a Renault 6 van variant, that's a hole that was competently filled by the Renault 4. That said, even the diminutive Renault 5 got a commercial version in the form of Heuliez's Le Car Van.
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Feeling quite enthused I got a chance to go to the unit today briefly to have a look at the Renault and see more realistically what's likely to be involved in this van conversion I want to undertake. It did highlight another option for it which is to just panel over the rear side windows and door handles but leave the doors fully functional thus giving the appearance of a van with the a little more functionality of side loading ability. It would also mean the rear seat could be used for passengers if they really had to travel with me, though experience tells me that it's not the nicest way to travel.

Either way, I did decide a smooth side panel is better than a recessed one on account of the rear door design. You can see the window reveal is stepped, it might be enough for laying the fresh steel on top of and welding to, making life far easier than butt welding and minimising the need for filling. I have two spare doors so I can use segments from those to patch in the big door handle recesses so that I don't have to try and make the piece needed to match.
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To weld the door up there's a couple of areas that need more than just tacks putting in. The top of the door has quite a large gap between it and the gutter and this would need to have a thin strip let in to bridge the gap, as shown here in blue.
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For the leading edge it's a little more complicated. I'm considering removing the hinges completely and letting in a filler panel though I don't know whether it should be perpendicular to the door or curved, the former is definitely the easier option. If I leave the rear hinges attached it makes lining the door up easier but you will get two squares sticking out which will likely detract from a tidy finish on this section. Again, the blue points out roughly what I'd need to fill with fresh metal.
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There are other considerations too. The rear arches both sides aren't brilliant looking, I suspect I'll have to clean these up and possibly let in some patches before welding the doors shut. You can also see that the rear wing has flash rusted through the paint. Since I've got some paint on its way to me I'll get this sorted when that arrives.
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The inside of the doors is easy to resolve if I leave them functional, I'd remove the window winder mechanism and the door card and replace it with plain vinyl covered ply or hardboard. If I weld the doors shut the same would apply but I'd also remove the latch and the rubber seal which is just glued to the door, a strange solution compared to other cars I've worked on but one that looks like it was Renault's way of doing things. I would also need to cut a small section out of the bottom of the door to allow access to the bolt that attaches the body to the chassis should it ever need to come off in the future.
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The recess for the window on the inside of the door is quite deep, plenty of depth to apply sound deadening material and trim fixings for a vinyl covered panel.
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Inside I'll likely remove the parcel shelf brackets but keep the trims as they are. I'm not sure what to do about the small section of headlining that goes into the rear quarter window surround, it depends what happens to the fabric tension when that section is unglued. I do plan to leave the full length headlining in, I see no point destroying or cutting it down to suit the van at this stage.
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If it were a better vehicle to start with I'd restore it nut and bolt. It's a rare car but it's not valuable without me sinking a lot of money into it that I don't realistically have. As a van, I can get it back to being a useful, solid little vehicle for much less money and not much more effort. For what I need in my collection, it will be a more sensible use of this little car.

My final consideration on van options is to weld up only the driver's side rear door, panel all the windows and keep the passenger side door as a functional side loading portal. We shall see.
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Grumpy Northener
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Re: '80 & '81 Austin Morris Princess and a '75 Renault 6TL

#620 Post by Grumpy Northener »

It was suggested recently by a friend that the 6 would make a neat little van. I had a very quick play on Photoshop and it turns out said friend was quite correct and I'm very taken with the idea.
Each to their own but my own personal point of view is that there are far too few Renault 6's in the original guise as it is - to carry out a van conversion to it is sacrilege in my book - there are loads of classic vans out there if that's what you want without undertaking the rape and pillage of this one.
1937 Jowett 8 - Project - in less pieces than the Jupiter
1943 Jowett Stationary Engine
1952 Jowett Jupiter - In lots of peices http://Jowett.org/
1952 Jowett Javelin - Largely original
1973 Rover P6 V8 - Original / 22,000 miles
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