Practically Classics Forum

Woah! Hold it right there if it's not too late already.

Renault's Cleon/Sierra wet linered pushrod engines are prone to picking up on the rings when they're really cold as the liners extend below the water jacket in some versions and so the liners cool unevenly. When this happens in an engine that is in regular use, it will often exhibit only a slight slowness to turn on the starter and then free itself off without damage and run normally til the next time it happens. Some are built a bit slacker and never do this at all but when you encounter one that may have been stuck for a while please, whatever you do, don't use phosphoric, citric (or lactic - as found in many soft drinks these days) acid to try and free it off. It will most likely free the stuck rings but unfortunately, in some versions, the acid will also attack the area where the liners are sealed to the block. This happens, then you get it free, it will sound fine with the characteristic clatter from the worn rocker shaft but it will be slowly filling its sump with coolant and fixing this will require the liners to be pulled and either replaced or resealed depending on the extent of any acid erosion as well as all of the usual gaskets needed during a fairly major stripdown of this type so use Diesel, Diesel and engine oil mixed, Duck Oil or similar but not something found in soft drinks.

Don't worry, we're using oil and nothing else, used most likely as it's the sort of thing that sits around for a while waiting to be disposed. The reason for taking the head off is simply that it'll likely need the head gasket doing anyway after such a long period of doing nothing and it makes sense to do it while freeing the engine off rather than waiting for it to go. Because of the weather, nothing is happening anyway, and what funds I'd like to divert to the Renault are going to have to go on the beige Princess in the short term so it's a slow thing right now.

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Today I had determined to get myself out to Derby to collect some stuff. First up was to check the car over and I found that the sidewall on one of the tyres was badly cracked so I pulled the alloys off - also finding someone had spat on one of my locking wheel nuts! - and put the steels back on with the decent-ish tyres. I can't afford £80 a corner for the tyres to go on the alloys so this is the best solution. On pumping up the tyres since the steels have been in the shed long enough to lose some pressure, my single barrel foot pump split its hose so I took that back for a refund since it's only managed to pump up 5 tyres. Not so bargainous after all.

I also really have to stop leaving main beam on, I seem to do it all the time since fitting the earlier dash as unless it's night time, the blue telltale really isn't that visible. Other drivers seem not to care, they're only sealed beams so hardly dazzling.


I gave the neighbour back the Rover radiator he'd given me for the Polo as it should fit his MG Kettle and he, in turn, gave me a very nice old tyre pressure gauge which really is a lovely thing as well as being rather useful. Quick check under the bonnet showed that the thermostat housing was leaking again but very clearly from the cap which hadn't seated properly. Took some fine files to the chemical metal repair to reprofile the housing properly and now the leak is gone and the cap seats correctly.

Set off to Derby, queue 50mph road works on the M1 and a 45mph Daewoo Matiz/Chevrolet Spark after the road works, torrential rain, slow lorries... not the best day for it. I wondered why people were leaving so much space behind me too until the wind caught the spray, bringing it into view of my mirrors, I was kicking up which was so bad it made me look like the Top Gear Hovervan. I could fit mudflaps, or I could just keep this as a safety feature.

First stop to meet a fellow enthusiast who had a gift of some lovely asbestos filled brake shoes for me, these are destined to go on the red Princess and completes the last piece of the known brake component needs on it.


That bit went rather smoothly really, bit of a natter before heading off to my next target who wasn't too far away. Enter Derby rush hour and people performing some of the worst overtaking and bullying techniques I've ever experienced with my visibility somewhat reduced by fogged rear side windows and a rain blurred rear screen. The the satnav packed up on me, didn't blow a fuse this time it had just decided it didn't want to charge at all. Got my atlas out to find it was rubbish and didn't tell me where I was at all as it wasn't a small enough scale and after asking for directions from a passerby I found myself properly lost in a place I'd never been to before.

Contact was made with the guy I was to meet and he came over in his 240 estate to lead me to safety. Got off the phone, tried to start the Princess and it flooded, somehow managing to give me that old summer time hot start issue in February on the wettest day ever. Left it a bit and it fired up no bother then I followed the 240 to the destination where the satnav could be charged and I could pick up these lovely things.


I may fit both or just one to the beige wedge and one of the spare fog lights I now have will be mounted on the parcel shelf to serve as a high level brake light, something that would be very useful in traffic as it'll make me that much more visible.

All in all it was about 100 miles in horrible weather on choked motorways but I got to meet a couple of good eggs and go to a place I've never been before (well, I'm not counting going through on a train), Oh, and to finish off, this grey house is the first house I lived in, though it was only for the first few months of me being alive so I don't remember. I stopped to photograph something else, turned around and saw this neat photo-op.

That's a really good photo and would look fantastic if transformed into one of your drawings!

Re the Renault engine, another thing that has to be avoided when taking the head off one of these is turning the engine. Now OK, at the moment it's frozen so that's good in a way as you'd probably get the head off without it turning but once the head comes off it's crucial that you find some big flat washers and attach these to the stud holes between the bores so that each washer clamps down one side of each liner. Failing to do this will allow the liners to move with the pistons - especially if the seizure is acting on the liners and rings - and that would mean taking the liners out to reseal them. You may end up deciding to reseal the liners anyway depending on what you find once you're in there but unless there's any measurable sign of sinking or rising away from the seals where the liners enter the lower part of the block they're usually best left as faffing around with shims and a tube of Silicoset is a right mare since you need to clamp the liners before you can measure how far proud of the deck they sit, then replace the shims and use more Silicoset each time before you find that the liners protrude by the correct amount. Great wee engines, don't get me wrong, but quite needy when it comes to some tasks that would be simpler on an Iron equivalent from BMC.

I've forwarded you excellent advice to MrDuke who is working on the Renault, very useful stuff and just what I'm on forums for. You've got me thinking about that photograph and turning it into a bit of artwork too now, that must be why I took the photograph.
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MrDuke has been busy on the island of a billion raindrops and found opportunity to inspect the 6 a little further. Head off and water in all the bores.


Oil too.


That means I have yet another car with OMGHGF looking at that which is no great surprise. The liners look okay, there's no evidence of water rusting things away for the past 20 years while the car has been stood. I'm no expert, but I'd say that looks like it can be sorted with care. MrDuke tells me that one of the head bolts was far tighter than the rest for some reason, possibly a very short-sighted attempt to cure the problem in the past. In the meantime, the car is not going to be moved at all so those liners don't end up getting out of position before the head goes back on.

Carb was removed and looks okay if a little grubby. You can just see the alternator to the right of the image. A good clean before putting it back on the car will hopefully suffice.




The head on the bench. Again, doesn't look too horrible. What oil is there doesn't appear to have big crusty or metallic deposits.




Rather than waiting 500 miles for the head gasket to blow, it can be repaired before the car is pressed into service instead.

After some more information, I have a preliminary list to sort through for the engine on the 6.
Head gasket kit - bought!
Liner locking tool - offered!
Water pump - crusty and rusty, to be replaced
Timing belt - crumbled to bits, needs to be replaced. Doing the head we'd replace it anyway.
Fan belt - NOS provided with the car
Oil - to change
Oil filter - to replace

The water in the bores was due to the engine not being drained when the head was lifted. The bores have since been cleared of water and will be allowed to marinate in oil of some sort once the liners are locked in place so that they can free off. While the head is off the car, it will be fully cleaned and rebuilt before going back on once the pistons are no longer seized and we know that the head is in good health. Since it appears the head hasn't actually blown the gasket there's a good chance there's no need to correct any warping with a skim, which is reassuring.

One strange thing that is still being investigated is some water ingress. When the car was collected there was water in the driver's footwell, presumably from the window being left open. It has since been mopped out and the car left sealed up but the water reappeared again when it wasn't raining and after the head was removed and we're not yet sure how or where the water has come from. My initial thought is that the heater matrix could be at fault or as MrDuke pointed out it could be from a partially blocked drain hole somewhere that allowed water to overflow into the wrong place as the car dries out and drains. We're not sure, but suggestions on where to look are welcome.

I think you'll find that water and oil is just from when the head was pulled off and not due to HGF, if you like i'll show you a picture of my V8 engine that sat for years with a water filled bore due to HGF and your bores look too good to have had water sitting in them.

Incidentally I stopped by the Heritage Centre in Gaydon yesterday and snapped a shot of a Wolesley badged verson of your car there, i'll post it if you want.

ave they pumped up the Wolseley? Successive pictures of it seem to show it sinking lower and lower, it's very sad.

But yes, since the last posting I learned that the the engine wasn't drained of water before being lifted. A new gasket kit has been bought and a liner-locking tool also secured so we can safely free everything off on the Renault. Should be sortable, seems to be reasonable okay.

Sadly not, it looked pretty sleeper lol

Stroke of luck in the form of two NOS Renault wings for free. Delightful chap that gave them to me wouldn't accept any cash for them. They just need a repaint and can then be refitted to replace the tatty and dented wings on the car at the moment.

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