Practically Classics Forum

mr rusty wrote: It's main benefit is that it's initial drying is so quick, it keeps the dead bugs to a minimum.

It's also easier to fix defects if you put enough on. I had an email exchange with Fuzz last year about featuring cellulose painting in PC and this is his reply:
"The use of cellulose is questionable.
Personally, I’ve seen many problems with it, from initial application, to bloom and huge problems when the next repaint occurs.
As a result, I prefer not to recommend it."

The only problem I have with 2Pak is that my garage is attached to our house (with various doors, windows and vents through). Actually there are two problems - the next door neighbour's garage shares a common wall and we get his volatile compound smell in our garage (fair exchange!). As his garage is mirror image to ours, it vents into his house too! I would not be popular if I poisoned my mother or, more importantly to some, my neighbours!

OK, I read modern 2pak isn't supposed to be toxic - I was told something similar about twenty years ago by a friend who was a paint sprayer. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us - he died of a heart attack in his early forties.

My main moan with 2Pak is that as soon as the laquer has chipped, water gets behind and causes problems. A friend has just had to have the wheel arches and sills sorted on his 2008 Focus, so I fear this is still a problem!

Luckily (or not) I can't get celly for the car (silver metallic) and the tractors are sprayed with traditional synthetic enamel (though some perfer to spoil the originality of their tractors and use 2Pak), so I think I can say I'm an impartial observer!

It's also easier to fix defects if you put enough on. I had an email exchange with Fuzz last year about featuring cellulose painting in PC and this is his reply:
"The use of cellulose is questionable.
Personally, I’ve seen many problems with it, from initial application, to bloom and huge problems when the next repaint occurs.
As a result, I prefer not to recommend it."

Not very practical from Fuzz there! We don't all have paint booths, I've never even had a garage!

Bloom is dealt with by waiting until the weather is warm and/or using anti-bloom thinner, and why did he think rthere'd be huge problems with the next respray? I can understand celly reacting with old paint, that's why we have isolator, but what causes trouble on top of cellulose that isolator again wouldn't deal with?

If you're painting on the drive or in the garden cellulose is really the only option- two pack might or might not kill you in a russian roullette sort of way, coachpaint takes absolutely for ever to dry, and I know absolutely sod all about how to use water based paints, so cellulose it is for me every time until something better for home use comes along.

Hello again

The issue with painting over Celly is that the thinners will soften the old paint and make it prone to sinkage or ringing-up around the edge of any repair.
Barrier coats are traditionally made of old fashioned oil based paints, which are thick and must not be flatted through.

Back in the 80's and before, when faced with a panel which had been painted in Celly to repair, the thing to do was to remove all and any paint from the repair area and to fill only direct onto bare metal. This demanded that a lot of time was spent and a huge of acreage of primer used when compared to repairs on modern more stable paints.

I have a 67 Alfa Guilietta respray coming up, it is in Cellulose and I will give the whole thing a continuous coat of 2k hi-build primer, followed by a goodly squirt of 2k to top. I will be working in a cowshed with water on the floor to keep the dust down.

The best barrier coat that I know of for problem surfaces which might otherwise pickle is 2k Clearcoat with no added thinners. Because this is a high/medium solids material with little or no solvent it provides a good surface finish without the risk.

In March & April of last year through temps of 5 degrees - I painted the panels of a 1950's Jowett Jupiter, in a dusty shack of a workshop - the celly paint was left for a few months before we touched it although the car was in use - through the summer each panel was flatted back with soap & 1500's prior to compound / T cut & waxing - taking several hours on each panel - all panels had been bare metaled - the paint was 32 years old !!!! with the pigment all in the bottom of the tins - we had to scrape it all out and paddle mix it in one batch for hours - the spray gun was a £32 gravity fed gun - End result: Winner of the 2010 Classic Car of the Year at the NEC in Birmingham - leave the modern paints for the modern cars and stick to cellulose for the classics - it is harder work - but a period feel and finish can be obtained and any mistake is easy to correct.

Interesting comments there, given that very few cars built since the '60s would have been painted in cellulose on the line.
Your '54 Jupiter, on the other hand, would most likely have been finished in enamel unless it was one of the metallics. A friend who's been a Jowett car club member since the '70s reckons that enamel was used on the Briggs bodies and when he tried to paint his Jupiter in cellulose, the underlying enamel reacted and off it all had to come. Those were the solid shades, he reckoned that the metallics (and all in-house bodies) were in cellulose. Well done on what has to be the ultimate bit of proactive recycling; most would have left that old paint well alone.

John - The Jowett Javelin was Briggs bodied and enamel painted, but the Jupiter was in house built and panelled by Jowett, the restoration was to bare metal so no reaction to the paint was encounted. We have just commenced a total restoration on a very historic Javelin as our next restoration - cellulose will be used again - it is just such a forgiving paint when comes to mistakes (not that we try to make too many) - will post pics once we get mounted to the car turner.

Excellent. Any excuse to post pictures of Jowetts is a good excuse.

Now I'm off to tell Duncan that he was wrong about which bodies were in-house and which were Briggs', maybe I'll even have a little gloat about it.