Thanks for the responses,
Looks like this thread's got much the same spread of responses as I've seen previously (ie a range from 'it's fine' to 'it's dodgy').
A couple of questions:
1. Is the link in the photo Allabassi posted a 'fish plate' link?
2. Has anyone used a join link (ie not peened the link) and suffered a chain failure? Or has anyone known someone it's happened to, preferably not mate of a mate said it'd happened to a friend of theirs?
I'm also of the opinion there can't be that much stress on these things, and I'm not sure how the join link of the kind Allabassi posted a pic of are supposed to fail - surely using a drilled plate rather than a clip that connects both pins means it's unlikely to separate? Though I vaguely remember someone saying the clips that hold the drilled plate to the pins can vibrate off, letting that plate come away and the chain to separate.
Would be interesting to know what an engine designer/production engineer thinks - whether an endless chain is superior or/and easier to fit at the factory.
Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
a.. noMrTibbs wrote:Thanks for the responses,
a..the clips that hold the drilled plate to the pins can vibrate off, letting that plate come away and the chain to separate.
b..Would be interesting to know what an engine designer/production engineer thinks - whether an endless chain is superior or/and easier to fit at the factory.
b.. endless comes brand new, made to length... cheap
alfaSleep
'the french will always be there when they need you'...Monty ;<)
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tractorman
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Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
^^^WHS^^^ but, if you have the tool, it's probably just as quick to join a chain as it is to fiddle with the clip and the link will be cheaper.
A friend who worked in a BL garage poured scorn when I used a spring-clip joining link on my Maxi (in 1982), but it was still working well enough when I sold it on - and he did admit that he hadn't seen any engines fail because of the spring clip; his bias was only because he had access to the proper links and tool and had done the BL training courses on Maxis!
A friend who worked in a BL garage poured scorn when I used a spring-clip joining link on my Maxi (in 1982), but it was still working well enough when I sold it on - and he did admit that he hadn't seen any engines fail because of the spring clip; his bias was only because he had access to the proper links and tool and had done the BL training courses on Maxis!
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
But on the other hand..........
We could all go on forever about the pro's and cons of fitting a fish plate split link. Personally, I would not.
But, let's first go back to the original post. The situation as I see it is that Mr T has a new cam chain that comes with a split link that needs to be peened. He has been told that he can use a fish plate type of split link, which will be easy to fit and save him the additional outlay of buying a peening tool. Correct me if I am in any way wrong here Mr T.
I guess that what it might boil down to is this. IF there is an early failure of the cam chain, leading to a wrecked engine, no matter how big an "IF"[/b] that turnes out to be, what happens then?
Well, Mr T might go back to his cam chain supplier and try to claim the cost of an engine rebuild. Naturally, they will want to see some form of evidence, preferably in the form of a snapped cam chain. I would guess that if they saw that any part of that chain was not as they supplied, or fitted as per their instructions (WHETHER IT WAS THE PART THAT FAILED OR NOT) then they would do their very best to wriggle out of any claim.
So the short answer is that although some posters on this forum have had no problems in practice with a fish plate split link, do bear in mind that the guarantee on the cam chain will most likely be invalidated.
How big a risk do you think you will be taking? The general feeling seems to be that the risk is acceptable, but I could never resist having a bit of extra kit in the garage..........
We could all go on forever about the pro's and cons of fitting a fish plate split link. Personally, I would not.
But, let's first go back to the original post. The situation as I see it is that Mr T has a new cam chain that comes with a split link that needs to be peened. He has been told that he can use a fish plate type of split link, which will be easy to fit and save him the additional outlay of buying a peening tool. Correct me if I am in any way wrong here Mr T.
I guess that what it might boil down to is this. IF there is an early failure of the cam chain, leading to a wrecked engine, no matter how big an "IF"[/b] that turnes out to be, what happens then?
Well, Mr T might go back to his cam chain supplier and try to claim the cost of an engine rebuild. Naturally, they will want to see some form of evidence, preferably in the form of a snapped cam chain. I would guess that if they saw that any part of that chain was not as they supplied, or fitted as per their instructions (WHETHER IT WAS THE PART THAT FAILED OR NOT) then they would do their very best to wriggle out of any claim.
So the short answer is that although some posters on this forum have had no problems in practice with a fish plate split link, do bear in mind that the guarantee on the cam chain will most likely be invalidated.
How big a risk do you think you will be taking? The general feeling seems to be that the risk is acceptable, but I could never resist having a bit of extra kit in the garage..........
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
Actually, the chain I have is continuous and would need to have a link ground and peened (or a split link used) unless I want to do a head gasket job at the same time (I don't).
As for making a claim if it fails, I'm assuming it'd be fairly cheap to stick a replacement engine in (around £300) and trying to prove it'd been due to the chain might be tricky. I'm also fairly relaxed if no-one knows of a split pin failing, and as the car only does around 1,500 miles a year.
And if the 'normal' chain peening tool worked I'd get one if they're £30, but any reference on Mercedes forums I've found says they don't work - the tool's specific to Mercedes and Saab chains apparently.
Mike
As for making a claim if it fails, I'm assuming it'd be fairly cheap to stick a replacement engine in (around £300) and trying to prove it'd been due to the chain might be tricky. I'm also fairly relaxed if no-one knows of a split pin failing, and as the car only does around 1,500 miles a year.
And if the 'normal' chain peening tool worked I'd get one if they're £30, but any reference on Mercedes forums I've found says they don't work - the tool's specific to Mercedes and Saab chains apparently.
Mike
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
Mike,
It won't fail, those clips are used on every MB replacement timing chain recommended intervals for changing them is at right around 100k miles.
It won't fail, those clips are used on every MB replacement timing chain recommended intervals for changing them is at right around 100k miles.
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
I agree with Al (g'day mate!) . I have stripped mercedes engines with several hundred thousand clicks on them and all had replacement chains with joining links, all were OK .I have also worked on industrial machinery where chains were under severe shock loads and all were joined with the same links. No problems what so ever. 
Re: Mercedes timing chain (use a split link?)
G'day Ron!Ron B. wrote:I agree with Al (g'day mate!) . I have stripped mercedes engines with several hundred thousand clicks on them and all had replacement chains with joining links, all were OK .I have also worked on industrial machinery where chains were under severe shock loads and all were joined with the same links. No problems what so ever.