Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

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styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#1 Post by styleruk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:53 am

Hi all, first post here as I am not getting any feedback on Singer forum. (short post goto; 'The point'.

Recent (Covic-19), days, I've found myself with more time to prep my car for Classic Le Mans that me and my brothers do every 2 years (it's been put back to 2021). So with this spare time, I'm doing some detailing. I always love keeping Mr Ings (name of Gazelle 1965), original as best as possible but with some tricks up her sleeve. EG; I converted her to LGP many years ago but kept the original carb look as well as running on petrol. I have a well hidden powerful stereo system (I like my music), you would not know it's there.
So now to the point. I'm currently rebuilding the engine and converting to alloy head and overdrive gearbox ect, but whilst I had the engine out I thought I'd use my time to clean up and service things and that brings me to the heater.

The point.
Whilst I'm pulling the heater matrix apart to check it all out (first time it's ever been out), I'm doing some things*. Can anyone let me know of any improvements, tricks, tips or cool things I can do whilst I'm carrying out the task? No matter how crazy, no idea is a bad idea.

*'things', I'm doing.
- Bench tested fan, strip and check bearings etc.
- Replace foam seals around screen vent (circular ones) and floor vent (rectangle one). not sure where to get that yet
- Clean up all air ducts and think of a way to bring back a 'black' look.
- strip mechs and improve by re-seating, making new bushes etc. (I have lathe).
- replace aweful bowden cables with more modern ones
- somehow update the graphics to look new
- strip and paint...obviously
- pressure test the heater matrix (bloody carefully). I have a spare one somewhere to test that on.
- new screws/fixings etc
- rubber treat the input air duct. god knows why though, it's been there since 1965 and looks new.


any ideas will help or places for spares (not ebay please, drives me nuts that place)

Cheers
Si

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10170
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#2 Post by JPB » Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:54 pm

The period Smith graphic for the engine facing side of the heater box is available from HERE, and they also have the wee labels for old style washer bottles, be they Trico, Lucas or Smith, if this is the sort of finish you're after achieving.


Fact is, however, that after Holden, Auto Electrical Supplies and Vehicle Wiring Products, then your nemesis - eBay - can be the easiest place to find all of the small finishing touches that are needed when you're going for an authentic look and sooner or later, you may have to overcome your distaste for the site and pop your head above the parapet. ;)
Sure & others will be along shortly to offer suggestions relating to your other points, but where the heater is concerned, it should be adequate with little more than a thorough flush with something like Bar's Flush or similar, but in an original matrix of this age, I would attempt to flush the unit off the car in case any stable old deposits become loose and take up residence elsewhere in the cooling system ;) , but if the matrix is blocked beyond help, take the outer casing to your nearest branch of Advance Radiators (other specialists are around but they're among the best and aren't too dear) and ask for their thoughts about fitting a denser, more efficient core to the existing stubs and tinware.


Welcome to the site, Si, we're a small but caring sort of social medium here and if we could see some piccies of the Singer, maybe we could persuade you to post a thread about your car and your progress with him? We like photos on here!
:)
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#3 Post by styleruk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:16 pm

Thanks for the link for the label, that's a good help. (I'll have a go at sharing some pics, tried attaching them but they are too big)
The box looks better now after much cleaning

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7wcpcqx12gmztfhY9

Ran out of black paint and had excess yellow hammerite so the matrix (after cleaning out and testing), got a yellow coat.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yHqfmBpbVtDBK1vT7

styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#4 Post by styleruk » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:22 pm

it was a mess when I took it apart and play has stopped whilst I ponder over buying some black hammerite. I used automotive undercoat and top coat black to spray the visible bits, but the insides I was going to hammerite. Anyone know where I could get a rubber made up, looks like this one was on it's last legs. Rubbers are a difficult thing for things like this, can't turn one up on the lathe and can't 3d print one either. I'd love to buy an enormous box of rubbers so I can whittle them down when I do something like this.
heater.JPG
heater.JPG (193.53 KiB) Viewed 2811 times

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10170
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#5 Post by JPB » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:19 pm

That rubber and the pipe that it's intended to seal, looks very similar to the parts used in Volvo B16, B18 and B20 engines, as found in 120/130 series, P1800s, very early 240s in some export markets and Marcos models that used the Volvo engine instead of the BMC B series one.

In that series of engines, the rubbers seal the rear face of the water pump to the front of the cylinder head, the rubbers are also found being sold for a completely different purpose: Windscreen wiper spindle bushing! I kid you not, these are employed by Reliant Kittens and some of the three wheeled economy range models of the same era. How I know this? I once owned both a Volvo with a B18 and a pair of Reliant Kittens at the same time. The Volvo (a much missed 142S) was being fitted with the rubbers as I had the pump off to access the timing gears cover for an upgrade from a Paxolin camshaft gear and steel crankshaft gear, to a pair of steel ones. I had bought new seals to use when replacing the pump, but the outgoing ones were still serviceable and were repurposed (upcycled?) to replace the causes of the leaks that had been letting water to drip into the stupidly expensive Lucas Opus radio / cassette player that was fitted to the dash.

Anyway, to a source of these things as that's what you'll be wanting: OK, so I could only find the seals complete with gaskets to suit the Volvo water pump but the unnecessary bits could always be passed on to someone with a car that has one of the legendarily strong Volvo OHV engines, Here we are.

The shape appears much thinner and deeper in the image shown there, but they take on the form of your rather, erm, "playworn" rubber once they're in situ. I cannot be certain of the precise dimensions but the pipes' proportion relative to the other parts in your image suggest that they are in fact the same part in which case it may be worth speculating the 11€, probably only about £99,000,000 in the current global economic climate.. ;)
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

Dick
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#6 Post by Dick » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:23 pm

Welcome mate! While you have it all apart would it pay to have the matrix rebuilt? I had mine done on my jcb and haven't regretted it...

Dick
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#7 Post by Dick » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:26 pm

Pics of the car would be really appreciated too :D

styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#8 Post by styleruk » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:40 pm

Here's a pic of her at Le Mans last time with a few of my mates leaning on her. She is very much the workhorse for these trips as I can take the beer, fridges and tents. As you can tell, she needs a spray. Spent a couple of years making new steel bits for her by hand, lots of metal bashing, she is now solid through and through....but missing colour.
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (206 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
Managed to aquire a new short block (cast 1982), could not believe my luck, it was for an Iranian car. I used to use her to commute and clocked up 200k+ miles on her original engine with 2 rebores, she's a working practical classic. So felt she needed a new short block. So when I can afford a new cam shaft, I'll fit an alloy head I got years ago, along with an old overdrive gearbox.
So next year she will have new bottom end, alloy head, overdrive. I fitted an oil cooler as a few trips across France caused some heat under the bonnet and she struggled to start after a short stop. So wrapped exhausts, new pump and original oil cooler worked a treat. Besides, she runs a little hot on LPG. Along with the gearbox and engine upgrade, I really wanted to make a classic looking roof rack to match the boot rack and a steel sun visor, so plenty to do til June 2021.
Her Name 'Mrs Ings', comes from the only previous owner who died and I bought her from the family back in 2003 ish. I rebuilt her and used as my every day car, even business trips to far and wide, I would not do anything less than a modern car would. I have always carried out preventative maintenance to avoid problems and she only ever let me down once. I even fitted her with an Eberspacher to pre heat the engine and cabin on a timer so I could fly to work without warming her up. I have recently taken out the Eberspacher because I retired her from comuting some years ago. Now I use her for fun trips and going to gigs (I play in a band).
Maybe I'll write her story on a different thread with more pic links because I can only seem to attach one pic to this.

styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#9 Post by styleruk » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:43 pm

A pic of her when I last rebuilt her. Now stripped of her shiney silver paint. But she will be finished again eventually. She is better condition underneath now more than ever, and I find that more important.
ssdfsdfasdf.JPG
ssdfsdfasdf.JPG (180.17 KiB) Viewed 2786 times

styleruk
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:46 am

Re: Singer Gazelle Heater refresh

#10 Post by styleruk » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:44 pm

JPB wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:19 pm
That rubber and the pipe that it's intended to seal, looks very similar to the parts used in Volvo B16, B18 and B20 engines, as found in 120/130 series, P1800s, very early 240s in some export markets and Marcos models that used the Volvo engine instead of the BMC B series one.

In that series of engines, the rubbers seal the rear face of the water pump to the front of the cylinder head, the rubbers are also found being sold for a completely different purpose: Windscreen wiper spindle bushing! I kid you not, these are employed by Reliant Kittens and some of the three wheeled economy range models of the same era. How I know this? I once owned both a Volvo with a B18 and a pair of Reliant Kittens at the same time. The Volvo (a much missed 142S) was being fitted with the rubbers as I had the pump off to access the timing gears cover for an upgrade from a Paxolin camshaft gear and steel crankshaft gear, to a pair of steel ones. I had bought new seals to use when replacing the pump, but the outgoing ones were still serviceable and were repurposed (upcycled?) to replace the causes of the leaks that had been letting water to drip into the stupidly expensive Lucas Opus radio / cassette player that was fitted to the dash.

Anyway, to a source of these things as that's what you'll be wanting: OK, so I could only find the seals complete with gaskets to suit the Volvo water pump but the unnecessary bits could always be passed on to someone with a car that has one of the legendarily strong Volvo OHV engines, Here we are.

The shape appears much thinner and deeper in the image shown there, but they take on the form of your rather, erm, "playworn" rubber once they're in situ. I cannot be certain of the precise dimensions but the pipes' proportion relative to the other parts in your image suggest that they are in fact the same part in which case it may be worth speculating the 11€, probably only about £99,000,000 in the current global economic climate.. ;)
That rubber seems quite large in the link you gave. The rubber for this heater is only about 20mm diameter. I'll have a hunt around, otherwise, I'll buy a chunk of rubber and make my own one.

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