Headlights

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Flatlander
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:31 am

Headlights

#1 Post by Flatlander » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:21 am

As part of the ongoing restoration of my car, I've been thinking of upgrading the dual 5 3/4" headlights to something more modern. At present, it has sealed beams.

So what are everyones thoughts? 4 lights with H4's, or 2 H4's and 2 H1's? The new style LED bulbs? Or even a Xenon conversion...And yes, before anyone asks, I will be adding relays and heavier gauge wiring. :D

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JPB
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Headlights

#2 Post by JPB » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:49 am

Back in 2010, after sealed beams in 5 3/4" had been taken out of production, I fitted four H4s to the Dolomite, which made it possible to have four dipped beams, the inner pair switcheable for MOT purposes and for when high beam was selected (Dollies of that age kept their dipped beams lit when high beam was selected). The units I bought for the car were convex, so were acceptable to the anal concours crowd, not that the car was ever a prize chaser. They were £14 each from AV Taylor branches across the region or by mail order, brand was one I'd never heard of but they fitted, functioned and didn't cause too much of a loss in night vision compared to the o/e 75 Watt inner high beams with 55 Watt outers. They weren't as good as the sealed beams though, a result of the H4s' more "modern" cutoff pattern.

LEDs are a terrible idea in older units that are focussed by the lens, so if you were thinking about going down that route, projector type shells should be fitted and even then, the spread is rubbish compared to more conventional devices though amber diodes help with that to a point and provide an output that has the same appearance as a conventional filament lamp where the white/blue mix that's available is painful for other road users, quite literally, and takes ages to recover from when a vehicle with LEDs has passed in the other carriageway.

I'd go with halogens and it's your call regarding whether you opt for H1s in an inner pair of high beams where no dipped beam is required but the advantage in using H4s across the nose of the car is that the units are cheaper in bulk and a spare will fit any of the four locations. But I am a tightwad..
;)
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

suffolkpete
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:54 am

Re: Headlights

#3 Post by suffolkpete » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:18 am

I'd agree with John, my Rover P6 has got H4s in the outer light and sealed beams in the inner (one 75W and one 55W!) but I'll replace them with H1s when one of them blows.
1974 Rover 2200 SC
1982 Matra Murena 1.6

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JPB
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Re: Headlights

#4 Post by JPB » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:43 pm

suffolkpete wrote:one 75W and one 55W
:shock:

Funny you should say that, Pete. When I first got the Dolly in 2008, it had one of each too! I wouldn't have noticed were it not for a friend, during a road run with the local multi-make club, having his passenger take a photo after they'd overtaken me. The camera caught me just as I was flashing the lights and when they looked on their camera at the lunch stop, my o/s inner lamp was much brighter than the n/s in the picture. The car must have gone through at least two MOTs like that with the previous custodian, but then I suppose it would as long as the lamps provided decent beam patterns.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

Flatlander
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:31 am

Re: Headlights

#5 Post by Flatlander » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:58 pm

Quite a bit to think about here...I like the idea of using 4 dipped beams, with the two inners being switchable. Something I had not thought of.

I didnt realise that LED's have a poor pattern, so they can be discounted.

Any comments on HID's on inner (full beam) only? Or are they another bad idea?

mach1rob
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Headlights

#6 Post by mach1rob » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:34 pm

Image

Image

E30 bmw donated its projector headlights for mine! Took a bit of work to get them to fit, and trimming with the Dremel, but a vast improvement over sealed beams, and, dare I say standard halogen lights. Does need a couple of wiring mods, at least with the Dolomite, as there's no main beam filament in the Projectors, so you just get the 2 inner ones on main.

Classic Microcars
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: Headlights

#7 Post by Classic Microcars » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:57 am

HID can be very good, but it depends upon the bowl you are using. Lucas H4 bowls are acceptable, however, the Cibie shells are excellent. The beam pattern is precise and there is no scatter. Be aware of colour temperature though, maximum output is 4300K which is just a little closer to daylight that the standard Halogen bulbs. 5000K is close to daylight and not much good to be seen with, especially on a bike as you tend to blend on a sunny day! Over 5000K and the light output is falling off quite fast and you are moving towards the blue spectrum, this being the domain of silly boy racers. You can go as far as 12000K with is a useless purple. Power consumption of HIDs is typically 35W and the loom comes with its own relays. That in itself is an advantage with older car wiring and mucky switches.

Ignore the pub bores who will tell you that you need washers and sef levelling. The MOT rules are just "If they are fitted, then they must work". No need to add them unless you want to.

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JPB
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Re: Headlights

#8 Post by JPB » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:40 pm

Classic Microcars wrote:....The MOT rules are just "If they are fitted, then they must work". No need to add them unless you want to.
That's incorrect, please read on:

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_170.htm

Note failure point 2 on that page.
The current MOT test manual manual wrote: A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
However, some cars - my Smart was one such as I had HIDs fitted on a sort of "if you can't beat them, join them" basis - use self-cleaning lens on their headlamps and that tends to be allowed as the coating constitutes the "self cleaning device" for the purpose of the test, though the testing of that coating almost impossible and it tends to be gone by the time the car has done an average 20,000 miles in usual UK winter conditions, especially where ash is used on the roads as it is by here, meaning that [the coating] would already have vanished before the majority of their cars were submitted for the first test.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

Classic Microcars
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: Headlights

#9 Post by Classic Microcars » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:55 pm

John, the MOT information requiring retrofitting has been superceded as your link clearly points out. If you need chapter and verse, I will see if I can find it, but essentially, there is no compulsion to retrofit either device with HIDs. However, if OEM fitted or otherwise present, then they must work. That is what your link says and agrees with my statement earlier.

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JPB
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Re: Headlights

#10 Post by JPB » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:23 am

Where does that link say that this rule has been superceded? I'm always glad to concede a point where I'm in the wrong, but that rule is still applied by at least three of the testing stations that I come into contact with in the course of my placement visits, part of whose purpose is to make sure that the students I have in these venues are au fait with current legislation.
I'm going to need to ask the rest as I have placed students with a good few dozen sites so must get to the bottom of this. I know that VOSA doesn't always interpret its own rules so well but can honestly see no indication that this particular point has been changed since the last round of updates.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

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