Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

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poolystan
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#1 Post by poolystan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:47 pm

My 1967 Wolseley 16/60 is currently having A temperature reading problem. When it gets up to temp and I am travelling along in normal driving conditions the gauge reads very close to the hot mark, but if I knock it out of gear and let the revs drop to idle the gauge reading drops down to below half way , when I accelerate again the gauge immediately goes back up to the same position nearly HOT. I checked the engine temp and the reading I got was 77 deg at idle and 71deg at high revs, this indicated to me that the engine was'nt overheating because if it was the temp gauge would not drop immediately to below half way , it would stay near the hot. I removed the temp bulb wire and shorted it to earth, the gauge went straight to hot so I presumed it was working ok. I have checked the thermostat and it was ok I replaced the transmitter bulb, the radiator is brand new, the engine was back flushed and all new hoses fitted and new antifreeze. I ran a new wire from the bulb straight to the switch with no difference. I then went to an auto electrician who informed me that the car (which is positive earth) is charging at 15.5 volts whilst at high revs indicating that the control box/regulator was at fault. I bought a new one ,fitted it and still the car is producing 15.5 volts and the gauge is still up on the hot side. I sought further advice and was told that there was a voltage stabiliser fitted behind the dash which could be playing up. I searched behind the dash and could find no stabiliser and no showing of anything in the wiring diagrams. I don't know what to do next could the dynamo be the problem ? should the control box prevent too much voltage getting to the gauge ? Sorry is a bit long winded but I wanted to give all the details to aide any suggestions/thoughts you could offer. (if only electric leaked like oil we would find faults easier) thanks stan

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JPB
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Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#2 Post by JPB » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:18 pm

The instrument panel regulator is a rectangular box, about 1 1/2" long by 3/4" deep and wide, mounted on the back of the combination fuel/oil pressure/temperature gauge in examples of these where an electrically triggered temperature gauge is fitted.
The regulator that limits the dynamo output is a different issue and although there's something not right there by the sounds of things, this needs to be set up properly to provide no more than 14V under running conditions. The fact that a second regulator box hasn't brought the output within acceptable levels could mean that either the dynamo itself has a fault or so does the second regulator. Check the output at the dynamo itself to eliminate that.

This is what you're looking for behind the three way instrument body:

Image
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

poolystan
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#3 Post by poolystan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:59 pm

Thanks for that JPB, I found the stabiliser on my mgbgt and converted it to a solid state one to fix a fuel gauge problem, which worked ok. I saw nothing of a one on the Wolseley though. I will check the dynamo output in the AM, I have a spare if needs be. thanks stan

Penguin45
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#4 Post by Penguin45 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:17 pm

Yup, classic unregulated voltage problem. When it's working properly, you can watch the temperature and fuel guages fluctuate slightly as the stabiliser cycles. Responding to RPM (therefore dynamo output) suggests a voltage control problem as John outlines above.

P45.

History
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 8:03 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#5 Post by History » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:50 pm

Refer to workshop manual and adjust regulator to a max of 14.4 volts. 15.5 will kipper the battery eventually.

Or fit an alternator. Motorola good Lucas ACR not so good but better than the dynamo.

The existing wiring is not good enough for an alternator so connect output terminal to positive battery side , starter solenoid ideal. Connect warning lamp to warning lamp terminal on alternator. Obvious that bit.
If using a Lucas ACR the terminal block has two fat brown wires both these wires are live and do the same thing. Lucas way of getting the amps without overheating the wires.



Polarity change. Radios and time clocks are polarity conscious the rest is not.

Instead of the wipers going too and fro they will go fro and too. :D

That will keep you happy one week end.

Also run car with D dynamo terminal disconnected and check the temperature.


Bob

Classic Microcars
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:06 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#6 Post by Classic Microcars » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:21 pm

Should it be of interest, I rebuild these using quality electronics, not like the Mickey Mouse Chinese SMD types. £14 exchange, or (preferably) send me yours to do.

They are tested at 500mA for an hour and will survive up to around an Amp for short periods.

poolystan
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#7 Post by poolystan » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:03 pm

I visited another auto electrician workshop today, he checked my charging voltage which was 15.5 volts and checked out the voltage control box. He said the control box was working correctly and could cope with up o 16.5 volts from the dynamo. He said the fault lay with the voltage stabiliser, he looked for the stabiliser and like me he couldn't find one. He said he thought the stabiliser might be incorporated in the back of the temperature gauge and a new gauge would fix the fault. I am now looking for a new gauge, fingers crossed that he is right.

Penguin45
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#8 Post by Penguin45 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 pm

I have just spent some time running through the WM for the 15/60 and 16/60. There is no voltage stabiliser fitted to this vehicle. It is not concealed within any instrument - it is not there. Therefore, your only voltage control is the regulator itself.

P45.

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Luxobarge
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Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#9 Post by Luxobarge » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:23 am

Given P45's comments above, then the only thing that can be causing your problem is the charging voltage.

I still say over 15 volts is too much, and as above this will destroy the battery before too long if left. Does your battery need topping up from time to time? If it does, this indicates that it's bubbling, probably due to over-charging i.e confirming my theory.

Get your voltage regulator changed or adjusted for 14-ish volts and your problem will be solved IMHO. Or convert to an alternator as suggested.
Some people are like Slinkies - they serve no useful purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them downstairs.

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JPB
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Re: Wolseley 16/60 temperature reading problem

#10 Post by JPB » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:49 am

Penguin45 wrote:I have just spent some time running through the WM for the 15/60 and 16/60. There is no voltage stabiliser fitted to this vehicle. It is not concealed within any instrument - it is not there. Therefore, your only voltage control is the regulator itself.

P45.
This confused me as I remember changing the one on my last A60 so I looked in the factory manual - a BL branded one published in November 1971, so in fact at around the same time as the cars went out of production - for these things and it reckons that a VR was fitted from 1969 models onwards. This coincided with the change of regulator box and dynamo spec at the time. Right enough, the three way gauge from my 1961 Oxford has no sign of having been fitted for a regulator but I'd always assumed that the reason for this was that car's capillary fed temperature gauge, as fitted well into production of the 1622cc cars. No idea exactly when the readings started to be provided electrically, probably a random thing knowing the way that these cars evolved and certain parts were used seemingly without set chronological order; internal bonnet release, floor mounted dip switch, TRE sizes and whether grease nipples were present on these, etc..
History wrote:If using a Lucas ACR the terminal block has two fat brown wires both these wires are live and do the same thing. Lucas way of getting the amps without overheating the wires.
On a battery sensing alternator, only the one should be used, plus the smaller cable to feed the lamp on the dash. On a machine sensing alternator, the other is used, along with two different connections, neither of which should be doubled up with any other or connected to a battery sensing machine as doing that is the second quickest way to wreck the device's regulator, after handing it to Adam Ant and asking him to look after it for you..
Luxobarge wrote:.....I still say over 15 volts is too much, and as above this will destroy the battery before too long if left. Does your battery need topping up from time to time? If it does, this indicates that it's bubbling, probably due to over-charging i.e confirming my theory.

Get your voltage regulator changed or adjusted for 14-ish volts and your problem will be solved IMHO. Or convert to an alternator as suggested.
If the dynamo is only providing ><15V before the regulator, then it's not long for the world since the unregulated output of a typical dynamo should be far higher, the regulator being responsible for providing the 14V supply. Regulators are often blamed for dynamo faults (yes, and vise-versa) but in spite of the Farinas having massive batteries and being easy to start from the handle, I'd tend to fit an alternator, either removing the regulator box and connecting everything that's left to two posts on that or by fitting a pair of junction boxes to tidy up the wiring and also to allow you to put in a nice fat cable that can cope with up to 65 Amps as that's fairly typical of the current you can take from a modern or refurbished ACR-style device. ACR16s in machine sensing form would give you around 30A at best, a battery sensing 16 with modern components can provide double that so don't be tempted to rely on an old 28Amp cable for these things.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

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