P6s on the Green M25 Junc 18 Wed 3 Aug 2.30 to late!

[ajcb]

Re: Rover P6ers at the Case is Altered outing to Classics on the Green - Wednesday 3 August

We have 9 cars leaving the Artichoke pub on the Green at Croxley Green at 2.30pm. When we arrive at the show one minute away please park up in a line leaving as wide a gap to the next car as possible so we can get the 6 later arrivals, including a rather special V8 Estate, in when they arrive between 3pm and 7.30pm. The weather looks good so you may wish to bring a chair and a picnic tea or supper but there is usually food for sale on the site and in the two nearby pubs.

Some attendees at the show in the past have even brought barbeques upon which to cook supper and wine to drink with it! Dogs are welcome and there are pleasant walks from the common. But above all there is usually an excellent display of classic cars and friendly pleasant owners with whom to have a chat.

If you know anyone else with a P6 who wants to come along to Classics on the Green please do invite them to join us and then send me their details (name and e-mail address) together with their time of arrival by e-mail/pm to me ajcb via this forum.

All P6ers who can get to junction 18 of the M25 near the M1 and the M40 from Oxfordshire, Hertfordshire, Bucks, Beds, Middlesex and North and North West London and are free on the afternoon or evening of Wednesday 4 August are welcome to join us.

For details click on this link:

http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewto ... 13&t=10515

AND ABOVE ALL DO COME ALONG. IT'S A TRULY WONDERFUL EVENT!

Best Wishes, Tony Bunting.

Rover P6 Club Regional Organiser for
North West London,South Herts and Bucks known as The P6ers at the Case is Altered

[ajcb]

Thanks to everyone who turned up. 16 P6s and Brian Moss in his P4 and special thanks to Albert Frenseneier who drove his V8 all the way from Westphalia in Germany. Hope your hotel in Watford was ok Albert and that you had a good journey home. Here is a write up and the photos:

Just click on the link below to see us and all the older Rovers at the show.

http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewto ... 515#p81515

Best wishes

Tony Bunting

[JPB]

That's a great wee Amigo van there.

With the P6 owners why do so many of them - more than the percentage of other models' owners probably - run illegal plates? This is true of the local ones too, a couple of whom are already sporting Qs for their refusal to believe that the law doesn't apply to their cars.

[ajcb]

That's a great wee Amigo van there.

With the P6 owners why do so many of them - more than the percentage of other models' owners probably - run illegal plates? This is true of the local ones too, a couple of whom are already sporting Qs for their refusal to believe that the law doesn't apply to their cars.

Yes that is a great van!

I can only see one possibly illegal plate. The M reg one on the blue P6 3500S. Why do you think there are so many or am I missing something?

Cheers

Tony

[Paul240480]

Thanks Tony Great pics.

[JPB]

This one:

is a late July 1973 car.
This one:

was manufactured during 1983.
This:

You mentioned earlier but, and here's the point I was making; P6s seem to feature illegal plates more than other cars as a percentage of those seen at shows.
Here, at Druridge, as I wait while the members' cars come into the dunes for this weekend's big show, I've already seen three P6s on non-reflective plates; HNL***N, OVK**M and KJR***P, now there are only five in the programme (others may tip up but they won't be paid) and those are three of them. This is what I mean. There are representatives of other makes and models, many of those from the same sort of era, yet so far, no other plates that could earn their owners the loss of the car's original plate to be replaced with a Q as has happened to a surprisingly large quantity of enthusiasts so far this season.

It's scarcely worth the risk in this day and age of zero tolerance, when some Polises will grab any little thing they can as a reason for handing a fixed penalty to an owner.

One of those P6Bs, the HNL one, is owned and run by a serving Police Officer. Guess which of that trio is the least likely to end up with the Q?

[ajcb]

Traditional number plates for vehicles manufactured before 1st January 1973
Vehicles manufactured before 1st January 1973 are allowed to display traditional style 'black and white' plates i.e. white, silver, or grey characters on a black plate.

The characters size must meet the dimensions in one of the two groups below:

Group 1 Group 2
Character height 89 mm 79 mm
Character width (except the figure 1 or letter I) 64 mm 57 mm
Character stroke 16 mm 14 mm
Space between characters 13 mm 11 mm
Space between groups 38 mm 33 mm
Top and bottom margins 13 mm 11 mm
Side margin 25 mm 11 mm

That L reg P6 is a 1972 car so it is legal

Interesting about taking away the number plates and giving one a Q plate. I was not aware of that. However if you get replacement number plates made up as I did for my 1972 P6 the firm making them will not do so without checking the registration details are ok for the type of plate.

Cheers

Tony

[JPB]

That L reg P6 is a 1972 car so it is legal

Not the case I'm afraid. The L reg P6 is a 1973 car, so should have reflective plates as it's not in the Historic Vehicle VED class.

The vehicle details for RLX 971L are:

Date of Liability 01 11 2011
Date of First Registration 16 07 1973
Year of Manufacture Not Available
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1978CC
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type Petrol
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status Licence Not Due
Vehicle Colour BLUE
Vehicle Type Approval
Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £118.25
12 Months Rate £215.00


A 1973 Morris 1800 was stopped leaving the show last weekend, it was registered in March, 1973 and has a Heritage certificate confirming its build date as mid February '73. This was apparently its owner's first "offence" relating to the plates so he was dealt with by simply being instructed to fit replacement plates, persistent "offenders" can, if they refuse to comply, find themselves losing their car's original identity and in those cases can end up having to display a Q plate. One such case where an owner persistently refused to play to everyone else's rules is a very tidy Jaguar XJ6 whose owner had been running about on non-reflectives for at least two years. He spent a fortune on legal fees in an attempt to make some sort of point but, after his third prosecution, lost the car's original 1974 M plate and it now wears a Q. The guy simply doesn't learn though; the Q plates he had made and fitted after that are - you'll not be surprised to hear - non reflective.

Many plate suppliers such as Chestnut and Framptons will supply reflective, period-style plates for pre-2001 vehicles without checking details, same with non-reflectives for pre-1973 cars even though, strictly speaking, any vehicle that displayed reflective plates originally should be fitted with plates that display the current, smaller font, even if built before the 2001 cutoff point.
I bought my Dolomite's non-reflective plates from Chestnut as, although it was originally supplied with reflective ones, it had just been a plate donor and had been subject to a BMIHT trace which gave it a build date in 1972. No checks were made, I simply purchased the plates, put them on the car and that was that.

[ajcb]

Very interesting John.

I had not realised the remedies avalable to the DVLA via the police for the use of illegal plates included confiscation of plates and enforced use of a Q plate.

Regarding Framptons I must say that they were very strict when I last purchased replacement plates from them insisting that I show them the V5C document, my driving licence and a utility bill of the same name and address and checking that the car in question was old enough to be legally allowed both the black and silver plates and such plates with the requested size and spacing of numbers.

Those fiat vans like the ferrari team van were made from the early 60s to 1984. How do you know that is a late one and not an earlier one with the fiat badge replaced with the later model badge? I assume you identified the approx age by the later badge.

I take your point about the blue L reg P6 being registered in July 1973. However although a M reg car is unlikely to have been built before 1st Jan 1973 an L reg car registered as late as July 73 could well have been built in 1972 and also have had the old black number plates on it for some years maybe even before the free tax for historic vehicles came in to effect. In which case the current owner of such a car might not even be aware it was built in 1972 and could be paying tax unnecessarily.

Guess the answer as to why so many owners are flouting the law is either because they had the plates made up years ago before the restrictions imposed by law on plate makers or they or a previous owner have had them made up illegally more recently and either are not aware of the consequences if caught or are aware and have decided that as they like the plates will flout the law until the first warning hoping it never comes!

Cheers

Tony

[JPB]

Hi Tony, that Fiat van is a 1983 example, but since we're never sure who's reading this, let us assume that the owner only displays those plates when he's on the show field.