Strimmer line for a clock repair?

Got something to say, but it's not classic related? Here's the place to discuss. Also includes the once ever-so-popular word association thread... (although we've had to start from scratch with it - sorry!)
Message
Author
User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Strimmer line for a clock repair?

#1 Post by JPB » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:21 pm

OK, I already asked this on a clock forum and was basically told not to consider such a bodge, but the family's ancient long case clock, now living with me since I had the old place done up and found tenants for it, has had the horological equivalent of a footballing injury in that this:
Image
fell out of this:
Image
causing this:
Image

The reason that the striker weight fell out is that the gimp (no, not the favourite open source image manipulation software of that name) snapped at the very moment when the weight had just reached its uppermost position, so that weight had about four feet to drop onto the poor floor.
I'm not bothered about the floor, that part is normally hidden because there's a whopping great clock standing there, but I'm looking to restring both the striker - whose gimp it was that allowed the weight to fall - and the weight that keeps the clock going, with a safer, more modern alternative.

My first thought was nylon monofil, so Dad asked at the factory shop what was available but sadly, even their 60lb stuff, although sufficiently strong for its load, is way too thin, so much so that two strands of it would tend to wind into the same groove in the drum when I wind the old thing up, which would prevent it from unfurling smoothly as the weight falls and then it was suggested to me that the stuff used in strimmers is thick enough but the question is whether that sort of nylon is sufficiently strong to take the load of the weight as it's being wound in as well as the far greater load on the clock side, which I'm keen to change while I'm in there.

So is the strimmer stuff suitable? Breaking strain needs to be at least 40 Lb to be certain of success and can I find such information anywhere? Not bloody likely! Garden equipment suppliers are all telling me that strimmer nylon isn't graded by its breaking strain, since its intended purposes don't include pulling heavy things through fast flowing water, or replacing broken gimp in ancient timepieces.
Last edited by JPB on Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

GHT
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#2 Post by GHT » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:34 pm

Have you considered using fishing line? They come with various degrees of breaking strain. Not that I'm a fisherman, or even know if fishing line is practical. Those Trump wigs seem pretty strong in high winds, now there's a thought.

rich.
Posts: 6804
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:18 pm

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#3 Post by rich. » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:55 pm

have you thought of getting the proper part/wire for it?

User avatar
Grumpy Northener
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:26 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#4 Post by Grumpy Northener » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:44 pm

have you thought of getting the proper part/wire for it
John - I would use a thin wire rope - unsure of what diameter you need but this where you will find it http://www.wireropeshop.co.uk/wire-store/ they also do a pvc coated version of it - they stock everything from 2mm upwards and sell by the metre - all the breaking strains are listed with the products :thumbs:
1937 Jowett 8 - Project - in less pieces than the Jupiter
1943 Jowett Stationary Engine
1952 Jowett Jupiter - In lots of peices http://Jowett.org/
1952 Jowett Javelin - Largely original
1973 Rover P6 V8 - Original / 22,000 miles

User avatar
arceye
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:56 pm
Location: Cleveleys, Lancashire

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#5 Post by arceye » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:05 pm

But why not use something intended for the job, I assume it is a gut line in this case, easily available and not too expensive, and you will find a choice of real "natural" gut, or you can get a synthetic. I prefer the real thing but if you don't like bits of dead animals living in your clock case that won't be a problem.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/longcase-clock-lines

or

https://www.medmaw.com/cgi-bin/medmaw/medmaw.cgi

I still have my uses :D
Last edited by arceye on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
arceye
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:56 pm
Location: Cleveleys, Lancashire

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#6 Post by arceye » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:07 pm

oh, and shove an old cushion in the bottom of the case, it'll save the floor should anything go wrong again :thumbs:

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Strimmer line enquiry..

#7 Post by JPB » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:43 pm

rich. wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:55 pm
have you thought of getting the proper part/wire for it?
Yes Rich, but it's animal sourced and doesn't show physical signs of weakening, plus the stuff supplied by the specialist supplier in whose catalogue I looked is still far too thin to fill the drum evenly, think of this effect as being similar to cyclists riding two abreast, each getting caught in tramlines that converge just slightly sooner than the hapless souls are able to free their wheels, same as the monofilament does, GHT, which is why I already eliminated that as an option, though maybe a weight forward salmon line would give me sufficient thicker stuff before it tapers off? ;)

Chris, I like the idea of that coated wire. Dad used bare steel stuff in the wall clock for the same purpose and although its thickness is immaterial since that clock's drums are smooth, it takes on a life of its own every time the weights have to be removed to allow me to lift the rest off the wall for routine cleaning, sometimes taking hours to get straight enough for reassembly, but that stuff looks ideal, however, wire thick enough to fill the groove in the drum would be too stiff to allow me to tie a suitably small knot in the end where the wire comes out of the hole in the rear of the drum. In this movement, the back of each drum is only a couple of millimeters forward of the rear plate and that only just has a big enough hole in it to allow me to get one pair of very thin pliers in to make that knot which, in this clock, should be made small enough to feed back inside the drum, allowing the weight to be taken by the smaller hole at the rear edge of [the drum's] surface..
However, this is only one of several clocks that I'll have to do similar things to, and I can see at least a couple that would be well suited to that coated wire.

Arceye, yes, the synthetic gimp that Cousins sell is probably the closest to original that I'd trust not to wake me up by dropping its load, which isn't a quiet thing by the way, though in fairness to the broken stuff, it appears never to have been changed.. That clock was built in 1834, according to its maker's records, all of which are now mine as I'm his second last surviving relative, so maybe JPB, 1830s style, should have used a higher quality product when he was building the clock!
On the other hand, [the clock] is in a very average condition, its case having been pretty badly made and its face being an amateurishly enamelled one, so I thought maybe some ( :idea: fluorescent :oops: ) nylon line would lift the old thing a little..
:scared:
The cushion idea is a splendid one, might it have been thought up by someone who's heard that sickening crunching/banging noise before?
And believe it or not, the end of that enormously dense weight actually came with a crumple zone, note the slight distortion in the image.


GHT: Surely you're not accusing him of wearing a syrup? I think it's actually a severe case of "Barry Norman Syndrome" where one's real hair is combed to make it look as much like a rug as possible.
:mrgreen:

Edited Monday Morning: I've placed the order with Cousins and shall be using the synthetic alternative, not because it's animal free - my shoes aren't and that doesn't concern me - but because the stuff is apparently much more straightforward to knot, which is the part of the job that can take a disproportionately long time unless the person doing the labouring was born with really tiny hands that have several triple jointed fingers apiece.
Were the clock a valuable one in mint condition then I'd get the movement down, split the plates for ease of access and use the authentic material, but it's a cheap old thing that I would have left in a skip if it had been found in one. See the date complication? There's no gearing to drive that, to keep it reading correctly all that you do is open the cover, turn the finger manually and that's the job done. The old bugger is pretty accurate though, typically within half a minute +/- over the course of the week, and that's why he's still living indoors rather than providing leisure facilities for my family of blind mice in the workshop.

Thanks for all of the ideas chaps, and the links, which are bookmarked for future reference as I'll almost certainly need at least two further orders of differing types of line when I get round to cleaning and rebuilding further clocks, which are almost inevitably going to be suffering from years of being soaked in paraffin then bathed in 30 weight vegetable based engine oil as a "maintenance" routine :x .
Country folk and their funny ways, etc..
:|
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Strimmer line for a clock repair?

#8 Post by JPB » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:39 pm

OK, so it comes out that Cousins can't in fact supply 1.6mm monofil in spite of my having asked specifically and their assuring me that the size would be available and should be listed (Perlon, in natural gimp colour as ordered) and 1.4mm, although rated highly enough in terms of breaking strain, is just too fine to sit properly in the groove on the drums so I searched for Perlon and found a supplier (of fishing lines and leaders 8-) ..) that can supply the same quantity but at the minimum suitable o/d of 1.6mm for a third of the price asked by Cousins, who shall still be useful for some of the other stuff on my shopping list. Apparently, family counts for very little as even armed with this information, the factory at Alnwick couldn't do me a price close to that found online for the Perlon which is apparently like Nylon but doesn't stretch beyond its elastic limit within its breaking strain, which would matter less when used as a leader on a salmon line than as a clock line, though in either case, the correct 1.6mm stuff wouldn't be at all likely to snap like that gimp did, even if the pawl on that barrel had somehow found its way to the wrong side of its spring..

Animal derived gimp is, apparently, unrated for breaking strain and can't be guaranteed, hence the failure of the 183 year old original line. Honestly, stuff just doesn't last these days! ;)

For anyone who wants Perlon monofil at a fair price from a supplier who can do the job off the shelf, Fairwater Fishing Supplies in Looe, Cornwall came up with the goods at a price which is effectively a fraction of Cousins' already perfectly fair cost, a fraction because Cousins supply each clock with 21 feet, just enough for the 10 feet each drum needs without providing a usable "bit left over". The well known fishing tackle wholesaler down there in the land of, erm, Cornish stuff, is supplying me with 100 Meters for fewer Pounds. :D

So, if anyone on this board should want enough of this stuff to restring their own long case clock weights, then I'd gladly send 30 feet (which would be a decent quantity to allow for some spare) for the price of the stamp.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

User avatar
arceye
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:56 pm
Location: Cleveleys, Lancashire

Re: Strimmer line for a clock repair?

#9 Post by arceye » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Result :)

I've used Perlon a good few times due to the fact they can give a definite SWL which is comforting, especially on Fusee clocks where the line is the only thing stopping the spring barrel unwinding itself with massive force. It works just as well as the natural stuff, though I do like real gut from a "sympathetic" point of view.

I wonder if the synthetics will last as long, it isn't unusual for original gut lines to be still in place at 150+ years as your clock demonstrates. Due for changing though really.

Yes, cushions are very useful :oops:

Of interest, (perhaps or perhaps not), is that many of the weight driven American OGEE cased wall clocks have had the bottom of the case knocked off by falling weights at one time or another. To save costs they used a cord, but unfortunately it often rotted out in just a few years. Thankfully even that has a nice modern alternative that will last for years whilst still looking right. Its amazing really just what bits are still available for these old clocks 100 to 200 years later.

My oldest, a simple 30 hour pine cased longcase will be 240 years old this year or thereabouts as near as you date these things. Which reminds me I really need to sort a little problem with its strike, but as it runs and tells time just fine I suppose it will wait awhile yet :oops:

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Strimmer line for a clock repair?

#10 Post by JPB » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:27 pm

Only one piece in Dad's and my collection has a fusee movement and that's a French skeleton clock that sits there not running most of the time. I say most of the time, but the awkward old sod apparently runs the length of its chain each and every time Dad winds it up but always stops and refuses to start again if I've been down to visit the old chap's flat and was the one who turned the key on that occasion. That's why it lives with him, it just doesn't like being touched by me.

This is more my sort of fighting weight than big clocks though, a Doxa "Goliath" watch (66mm) with nickel silver case and it's quite the closest thing to perfect that I've ever managed to find, there's not a scuff anywhere on it, the crystal is perfect (and original) and as it's stem set, it can't technically have been used by a railway guard but its best feature is beyond a doubt its movement, which is a notch above the usual sort of thing found in these. Adjusted in the mandatory five positions, it arrived needing only strip, clean, fresh oil as appropriate and a spot of readjustment over the last few months, now spot on, it still manages a full nine days on its original mainspring if I forget to wind it on Sunday when the rest of the clocks have their winding session, it has gained twelve seconds since the ninth of November :shock: , can my "old faithful" Seiko Sea Urchin match that? Can it hell!

Image
Image
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests