Totally Off Topic, but need decent builders advice

[tractorman]

I can't add anything to Luxo's advice, but I would use lime too!

A farmer friend had the cobble end wall of his house done with cement render in the 60s and there had always been a damp problem in one of the rooms. He spent a fortune having the render removed about eight or ten years ago and, on "best" advice, had it rendered with cement - and had damp problems AGAIN!! The "expert" came back and insisted it wasn't a problem with the render, stripped the new plaster off in the room and tanked the wall. I suspect that wasn't successful either as it only accounted for a fifth of the wall's area!

Another friend had damp penetration with his farm house - and some movement as the house is on gravel and near the estuary (the garden was flooded in January 2014). He wouldn't accept lime as the best option and a different expert recommended expanded stainless steel to be nailed to the end wall before a waterproof cement render and pebble-dash. Putting the mesh up was a most unpleasant job as gloves were useless when trying to hold the stuff against the wall when nailing it on! Needless to say, the wall is still damp (and the rooms are gradually getting dry-lined) and is still moving! On the other hand, he wanted to clean the grotty lime render off the back wall. He's tried all sorts of tools but the render is still there. He's given up on that idea now and says he will just paint over it.

[arceye]

Cheers chaps, I'm still considering options, I like the idea of a proper lime render though at the moment I can't seem to get the costing where I need it to be compared to cement, though that might just be my working out.

I think we are lucky in having no signs of damp, but would put that down simply to the fact our internal walls are plasterboard stud walls and not directly onto the stone walls though we do suffer a cold wall at one of the gable ends.

I still like the idea of being sympathetic, I think with regard to walls being able to breathe the cement has to be a problem especially when there is no damp proof course as anything coming up the wall can only get out internally?

I'm going to start pulling the harling off one of the gable walls shortly and will try to get some pictures, but I have a cost effective idea that may be a compromise, but I'm sure you can tell me why its a bad idea.....

I have been trying to get a proper look at the old buildings locally, those that are derelict and the inhabited ones that have not been rendered or pointed with cement.

It seems that all they have is a type of flush pointing of lime with just the high points of the flagstones visible, probably about a third of the stone is all you actually see, and no limewash at least presently. Now given that the mortar joints that are visible on these buildings and in the areas I can see on mine seem to be too narrow to point effectively I'm guessing this lime is just daubed / dubbed on into the low points.

This has a benefit in that it wouldn't take half the lime mortar to achieve this finish if it works like it seems to my eye. Now my thinking was that if I skimmed the lime onto the wall so that I was merely scraping the high points, and pushed it back into the low points and joints that would be close to what I am seeing on the old unaltered buildings.

My problem then would be the odd concrete block up at the roofline, but assuming I could blend those a little could I just apply lime in the way I have mentioned followed by 4 or so coats of limewash to help weather proof the walls and blend the concrete blocks.

For this to be an option I will have to first see what is behind the present render and I'm guessing too many concrete blocks or cracks in the wall would put me back to square one, but if possible would provide a rustic appearance seemingly in keeping with the original buildings still in the area.

So, my thinking is probably flawed, but if it was possible,......

Would it work or why not? would it be effective? and does it make any sense at all?

Thanks Chaps

[rich.]

can you take solme pics? & where are you living? i have had to rip out block work & replace it with stone to match the original finish.not that complicated but worth it.. this was in the forest of dean where we had decent sandstone but we always used sand & cement. a mate removed the existing render & re did the joints with lime cement & then he had problems with penetrating damp every time it rained.. i think he's had enough now & going to re render with sand & cement... here where i live now is a soft limestone which does not really accept cement. when i do the joints i use 140 litres of sand 1 sack of lime & 3 litres of white cement, this dries to a soft creamy colour & matches the stone.. i will try & post some pics of my efforts

[arceye]

I'll hopefully pull the render / dash off one gable this week, so I'll at least take some pics of that wall when I have got it off, I'm at the very top of Scotland just before you fall in the sea Rich, and we do suffer the elements somewhat. Its been snowing today but spring is slowly pushing winter back so its coming time to get on with the jobs.

I probably have enough of the local flagstone to replace some of the blocks, and the old quarry from which the stone came is only a couple of hundred yards away.

[Luxobarge]

Arceye, I think your plan is fine, I don't see any reason whatsoever why it won't work nicely - only thing to consider is that where you are putting on lime render very thinly it may crumble off or crack - however I've seen applications where they've put it on in the "troughs" and then radiused it down to nothing where the stone shows, thus avoiding a thin bit where it meets the stone. In other words it's either applied at least 10mm thick or not at all, leaving the stone showing. Lime lends itself very well to this sort of treatment, and it will probably look great too.

I do strongly recommend the use of a good few coats of limewash (mix in some boiled linseed oil for external surfaces) which will help it throw off the rain while also allowing it to breathe. Limewash is wierd stuff to use, but once you get used to it it's easy enough.

Your building will thank you and reward you for doing the job properly!

Looking forward to some pics, when I get time I'll see if I've got any of my work.

Cheers

[arceye]

Cheers again, I think I will probably give it a go, to give a rough idea what I'm working with ...

This is a derelict not a mile from me, yours for about 25k I believe, this is very similar construction to how ours would have been pre modernisation



Most of the grey white colour you see on the walls of that is Lichen but it gives an idea of construction

This is a picture of a little bit of the first gable I'm going to do, this is where a stone garden wall joined it so it would never have been rendered and is pretty untouched, it at least shows how narrow some of the horizontal beds are



And the last pic for now is what was once an exterior wall of my house but this would have been the inside (its the same on the other side but I'd have to go down next doors drive to take it from that side) This may well have been rougher than the rest though as it was part of the original byre which has been demolished for access. I'm hoping the main house walls are mainly of bigger slabs but it gives again a general idea of how they built up here.



I guess a lot will come down to how many sins the render is hiding and what I can do to blend them, it perhaps won't help that the modernising work in the 70's also turned the house into a single dwelling from two small cottages plus byres. I guess we will find out when we get the bloody stuff off.

[Luxobarge]

OK, see what you mean.

I still think your plan will work.

One tip - for getting the mortar into those deep shallow voids between the stones, a mortar gun is very useful - I've used one for Lime pointing and crack-filling countless times, invaluable tool.

Such as this one:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-bri ... -gun/67965

Cheers

[rich.]

heres mine


replacing rotten stone & 12" of plaster




replacing the corner


my old van & tipper

almost finished..

[TerryG]

I'm a tad jealous. My house is only about 150 years old, it feels practically modern compared to you lot's dwellings!

[arceye]

It's ok Terry, I don't think mine was anything more than a hovel built to withstand the winds we get , now my last house was only Edwardian but was full of "grand" features and even came with its own ghosts namely the original owner and a couple of dogs

Nice stonework Rich, that house is a real character property isn't it. Looks lovely in the finish.

Luxo, I've actually used those guns in the link in the past for pointing stonework in railway tunnels but we used a bagged mix you just added water too and whisked with a paint paddle on a drill, it is good to know they work with lime as they were a good bit of kit. Do please pop some pics of your work up, I'd deffo like to see it.

Other good news is we have decided to stay put so I may get to enjoy the end results. I started pulling the harling off the gable I'm going to do first tonight, not much keeping the newer stuff on at all but I think the old stuff below will give me a challenge. That is a very thin and quite weak mix but is still stuck pretty well. A lot of dampness trapped in it from water ingress at the roof line also so the newer render at least was doing no good at all.

Piccies when I get it off and I'll then be seeking advice from you chaps about the likelihood of my plan working / best way forward.

Cheers again.