UK's debts 'biggest in the world?'

[Mitsuru]

I found the below article on the BBC News Website

At the beginning of 2010, I highlighted a fascinating analysis by
the consultants McKinsey called Debt and Deleveraging, which
showed quite how indebted the economies of the developed
west had become.

McKinsey said that the UK had by 2008 become the most
indebted of all the big, rich economies, more indebted even than
debt-engulfed Japan.

Read the rest of it from here \|/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15820601

[Mitsuru]

A reply also on the same topic

In 1997 the John Major Government handed over a surplus of £52 million (remember when that was a lot?)
and god knows how much Gold. National debt was so low nobody thought about it and was close to its repayment
date anyway. North Sea fuels were pouring money into the treasury and you could still smoke without being hosed
down.

The surplus that had taken the best part of two painful decades to build up was demolished in a year and by 1999
we had to borrow to pay for things we didn't really need like Management Consultants, who seem to have vanished
now nobody can afford them, costing £20 billion from 1996 to 2006. We have been encouraged to borrow and borrow
and borrow and now we cannot afford to pay it back without borrowing more. I used to work in Mortgages and
regularly saw people with 40-100k in credit card debt and that was in 2005.

If you remember the 80's you'll know how hard the next 5 years will be.

[rich.]

i remember listening to gordon clown saying we could spend our way out of the recession... twat

[Willy Eckerslyke]

XKCD put UK's "public debt" below US, Japan, China, Germany, Italy, India & France:
http://xkcd.com/980/
But that was using figures from 2010. (anyway the rest of the chart makes fascinating reading)

[JPB]

Solution:

Pay more and larger bonuses to bankers. Of each million that those city types had received in bonus, on average £750,000 would have been paid to the Government in tax, etc.
A few more of those and there'd be more than enough to clear the national debt by next summer.

(I won't measure number 11 for curtains just yet...)

[Maaarrghk]

Would that it were JPB, would that it were. (Always wanted to use that on a forum!)

These buggers may not have been expert bankers in losing all that dosh, but one thing they are expert at is avoiding paying tax. If there's a loophole or a tax free option available, they will exploit it to the hilt.

And once they get REALLY rich, they can choose to "reside" here rather than be "domicile" and cut the tax altogether.

Yep, they really are laughing at us, but in more ways than we think.

[Martin Evans]

The Iron chancellor certainly went rusty Go back ten years and that's all we were hearing was how brilliant was our "Prudent" and "Iron" chancellor. It seems this wasn't the only lie that genial Tony BLiar told

There are one or two, who are finally cottoning on to the fact that we need to start producung things again and that the spivs in the City, far from being our salvation, damned near bankrupted (And may yet) us. Question is after years of "Education education education" do we have many people left, who have the necessary skills Do any of our politicians understand what skills are needed

[tractorman]

When you talk to a director or senior management of large firms, they will ask for higher levels of education for designers, managers etc. Unfortunately, many people aren't able to rise to those levels - either lack intelligence, are unable to show their intelligence in written form (eg severe Dyslexia suffers) or because it is so uncool to be seen working at school. I suspect that, if the government asked smaller businesses or lower levels of management what sort of person they wanted, they would ask for numerate people who had good handskills and were keen and able to communicate and learn the skills they would need in work.

The last school I worked in had a good Technology department and good links with a local factory (it must be a good factory, it was mentioned on QI!) and the pupils get training on lathes and milling machines (manual and CNC), CAD, welding (if using it in project work) etc as well as using basic hand tools. Some go on to Uni and study Engineering, but many go to work in garages, building and other "manual" trades if they don't want a job in the factory.

I would hope that the school wasn't unique and that others teach proper hand skills (just because the subject is Engineering, Resistant Materials etc, doesn't mean woodwork and metalwork aren't taught!). I just wish Government would appreciate that not all pupils are potential degree holders and respect that some will be manual workers all their lives - and will have excellent careers too!

[Martin Evans]

We need to forget this fixation that academic ability is the only form of intelligence (I suspect that it maybe due in part to the fact that many politicians fall into that category). It is one kind of intellegence but quite often those who exhibit such aptitude, to an extreme level, lack in other areas. Lets face it, if most of us went to live in the Australian outback, most Aborigines would think we were retarded.

[Maaarrghk]

Two excellent posts Martin and Tractorman.

I too went to a school that had a fully equipped workshop and was using lathes at age 12 and milling machines at age 13 - only thing missing was welding gear, but we did brazing.

I guess what's needed is a root and branch overhaul of the complete education system along with huge investment in our own industries - or should I say a re-creation of our industries, as we have so few left. We can never be THE shopfloor of the world again, but I'm sure we could be a main contender.

Presently we have too many at Uni doing stuff that we don't need and other stuff that could be taught more effectively on the job through apprenticeships. Because there are so many students, it would not be possible to bring back full grants as things are, unless someone bites the bullet and says "OK, we NEED x amount of graduates in these key subjects to get us back on track. We will give the best x candidates for each subject a full grant and tuition fees. The rest will have to pay full whack and those wishing to take subjects that are not of use should also pay full whack."

I went to Polytechnic and got an HND in Mechanical and Automobile Engineering - my maths was just not good enough for a degree. There is no way I would want to go down that route today if I were an 18 year old with a couple of applicable A-Levels - a HUGE debt until my 40's and virtually no prospect of a job at the end of it because successive governments helped and allowed our industry to be trashed.

After qualifying I saw our Engineering industries die off through lack of investment and getting rid of design teams in an effort to maximize profits - BRILLIANT that one! Next year all the foriegn competitors bring out new models and we keep trying to compete with last years. Nothing new on the drawing board because there IS no drawing board anymore.

I now work around the edges of the construction industry - the Chinese haven't found out how to import and put up buildings cheaper than we can yet............

End of rant.

For now........