Electrification-Yes or No?

Got something to say, but it's not classic related? Here's the place to discuss. Also includes the once ever-so-popular word association thread... (although we've had to start from scratch with it - sorry!)
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Rustbubble
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:20 pm

Electrification-Yes or No?

#1 Post by Rustbubble » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:24 pm

Hi all-
Sign of the times I guess, but reading the latest Practical Classics, front cover is a whole load of classics that have been electrified- or turned into washing machines (?) :)

Now I know its coming no matter what-Jaguar announced last week its all electric from 2025 etc, but I'm sorry I just don't think you can retain the original 'feel' of an older car with an electric motor, you just can't. It's a facsimile. It's like a Western town film set, with nothing real or relatable to the façade behind. It's clever, yes, but ultimately, soulless, eg there's no way you could compare they experience of a Rover SD1 V8, with one with an electric motor.

Second to convert, its hellishly expensive, and I think an awful lot of the more 'real' or 'bread and butter' type cars, which I feel does include ours, just aren't going to get that kind of money spent on them....are they?
I think this will mean an awful lot of good older cars will be scrapped in the next 10 years or so, and the classic world will become a preserve of the wealthier.

Better get out (when we can again) and enjoy our cars as much as possible while we can!

GHT
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Re: Electrification-Yes or No?

#2 Post by GHT » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:16 am

The proprietor of the garage who looks after our cars told me that he was taken to an airfield, on some jolly or other, where he saw an electric car do the nought to sixty in a blistering time. He said that his future looked dim and that he would end up servicing classic cars. But he then added, will they also be converted if their owners find that the current fuel stations no longer sell fossil fuel? Interesting thoughts.

A fossil fuelled engine has pistons, and pistons, by their very nature, oscillate, which means they stop and start as in going up and down, which limits them to the speed they can achieve. Whereas the electric motor rotates, making it much more efficient and capable of going much faster. Electric vehicles, apart from their limited distance between recharging, have a major drawback, you can't hear them. No pollution and no noise sounds great until you are standing in front of Saint Peter while he checks his entry list to see if your name is on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9yCOCufjDA

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JPB
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Re: Electrification-Yes or No?

#3 Post by JPB » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:18 am

I like the idea of EVs, we have to embrace the idea if we're to carry on driving after the end of this decade, but only Toyota and BMW currently sell cars with the electricity supplied from hydrogen fuel cells and ISTR that only half a dozen uk fuel forecourts sell the hydrogen, just one in the whole of Scotland though.
But there's no need to use fossil fuel if you run an older (non common rail) Diesel burner.
The L series engine in my tallest vehicle came from the Toyota factory with an inline fuel heater, pump seals that won't melt in new veggie fuel and has been running for the last year and a half on SVO from Bookers (other cash & carries presumably similarly priced) at 54ppl, plus the vat if you remind them that you're not buying it for catering purposes.
Other advantages include the higher cetane rating of veggie compared to forecourt fossil fuel, which allows me to adjust the injection timing to suit (easy on old Toyota Diesels as there's no need to get out of the cab to get to the engine).
Running on SVO does, obviously, not eliminate exhaust gases, but the obligatory cloud of black smoke became a thing of the past after I'd started using veggie and the van now does 0 to 60 on the same day thanks to that cetane rating and my giving the pump a very slight twist. 8-)

So for someone currently in the market for another older motor vehicle, how about a B series BMC 1489cc Diesel such as a Morris Oxford or Marina, a Standard Vanguard Diesel, an early Golf or some sort of ancient commercial?
As for EVs generally though, I love that they're now far ahead of IC in performance terms but let's please get the Hydrogen supply infrastructure developed and then EVs will, finally, be a viable alternative, once we are able to buy cans for spare gas, but these would probably want to be stronger than the plastic cans we use for spare petrol or Diesel! :lol:
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

GHT
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Re: Electrification-Yes or No?

#4 Post by GHT » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 am

JPB wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:18 am
I like the idea of EVs, we have to embrace the idea if we're to carry on driving after the end of this decade, but only Toyota and BMW currently sell cars with the electricity supplied from hydrogen fuel cells and ISTR that only half a dozen uk fuel forecourts sell the hydrogen, just one in the whole of Scotland though.
But there's no need to use fossil fuel if you run an older (non common rail) Diesel burner.
I sort of think that I know what you are saying, John, but I'm an ignoramus about vehicle machinations. Many years ago, when old loudmouth lorded it on Top Gear, they took an old Volvo diesel, did nothing to it other than drain the fuel out, then filled the tank with some sort of cooking oil, bled that through and fired the engine. You also see, on the side of those trailers of the McDonalds delivery trucks, something akin to: "We recycle our spent cooking oil to bio fuel that powers our lorries."

It will be interesting to see if there's any dispensation towards the classic fraternity. London Electric Vehicles converted a 1953 Morris Minor for a cost of around £20K but added that the car would need a lot more spent on it in preparation and so on. The twenty grand was just for the electric components plus fitting. What amused me was that the distance the Moggy could travel between charges was about 80 kilometers. Note the metric choice of distance, it sounds a lot more than fifty miles.

https://classicsworld.co.uk/guides/elec ... or-review/

suffolkpete
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Re: Electrification-Yes or No?

#5 Post by suffolkpete » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:57 am

A recent television programme reckoned that there would be 13 million EVs on the road by 2030, which would leave about 23 million IC vehicles, so I don't think we need to worry too much yet. The article in Practical Classics mentioned a mini with Nissan Leaf mechanicals, including a 109bhp motor. That's about 81kW. The battery was 20kWh, which a bit of basic arithmetic shows would power it for about 15 minutes at full power. A bit like buying an IC car with a one gallon petrol tank. That's a bit extreme but I have yet to see an electric car with more than 30 minutes full power capacity. I treat range with the same scepticism that I regard the mpg figures for IC vehicles.
1974 Rover 2200 SC
1982 Matra Murena 1.6

GHT
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Re: Electrification-Yes or No?

#6 Post by GHT » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:44 am

suffolkpete wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:57 am
A bit like buying an IC car with a one gallon petrol tank.
I know what you mean, it's like a cell phone with a rotary dial.
phone3.jpg
phone3.jpg (16.56 KiB) Viewed 82 times

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