What constitutes a classic?

[ajsphead]

I don't know why we can't just celebrate every old car as it's outlasted it's projected lifespan and wants to keep going. Takes away the argument for what is a classic, but then I suppose someone will start arguing about what's 'old'.

Anthony

[Luxobarge]

I don't know why we can't just celebrate every old car as it's outlasted it's projected lifespan and wants to keep going. Takes away the argument for what is a classic, but then I suppose someone will start arguing about what's 'old'.

Anthony

Amen to that!

[rich.]

this is dull chaps..

[richardthestag]

Now the organisers have taken on the VicRoads definition of a classic (ie: old enough for Historic rego). From next year the cars must be 25+ years to enter. There has been a royal outcry from some of the clubs/forums about it, but at least it is a hard-and-fast rule everyone can understand. [/b]

I come up against this a few times over here where they only want pre '72 on the same basis - to me it seems a bit unfair to not let in my 1977 Stag but I suppose there has to be some sort of cut off

Or my 1973 Stag ... which will be 38 this August!!!

[rich.]

happy birthday stag!



a bit early

[Amy]

The comments above are spot on!

This sort of definition and attitude to what is a classic for instance:-

Admin:-
"There's a simple answer to the what constitutes a classic in my eyes: Whatever i own is a classic, whatever you own isn't (unless it's what i own too). That seems to be the way it works in my experience "

This kind of flawed subjectivity devalues the whole notion of "classic cars" both in the eyes and minds of enthusiasts and the general public, and ultimately in the minds of politicians. Hence paving the way for the EU to bring out more and more damaging directives. All the FBHVC can do is mount a fighting retreat against the tide of damaging legislation.

Oh FFS. Please extract your head out of your own exhaust pipe.

Firstly, what on earth is wrong with a little subjectivity? If we all just bowed down at the alter of whatever it is you think should be a 'classic' (that was Eastern European cars from the 1980s, wasn't it?) then it could get very dull very quickly. I'm not a great fan of 1970s and 1980s Fords, but have been to quite a few gatherings of them and there's no doubting the passion and commitment of the owners. Does their gathering in a cafe car park somehow 'damage' the classic car scene? I'd say exactly the opposite - it actively enhances it.

So, does the fact that someone considers the Mk1 Mazda Eunos or a 1991 Ford Fiesta to be a classic mean that 'classic cars' are devalued? Of course it bloody doesn't. As for Joe Public's "notion of classic cars", what on earth is that? Have you asked all of Jo/e Public what their notion of classic cars is? Of course you haven't. I can tell you that all of Jo/e Public will look at my Jupiter and would probably say it's a nice car, but they may not immediately say "oh, that's a nice classic car" because they don't necessarily have such a notion. And frankly, who cares? If they like it and want to ask me about it, great. If they look at it and think "ooh, that's old but really rather ugly", I genuinely don't care. It's certainly not going to affect my enjoyment of my car - and to me, that is what this hobby is about; enjoyment of the car(s) which I appreciate and value for whatever subjective reason I may choose.

We have a Sinclair C5 in the garage - is that a classic? Does it matter?

As for the EU, I don't think you necessarily appreciate quite how the EU and regulation works, but the fact that your next door neighbour's son has a 1980s Lada which he calls a classic probably isn't really what they take into account when they're making legislation...

[richardthestag]

I agree re the boredom, zzzzzz’s and general despair at this thread but couldn’t resist taking the bait on this spectacular pile of delusion. But not having the time or patience to trawl through every point I would like to pick up on a couple of the points....

I would like to re-state the simple formula for determining what is and is not a classic.

Who made you milk monitor?

Old is not sufficient. Old can also be rubbish, or mundane and unremarkable.

A car has to be both old and great to be a classic- if an everyday car in it's time, it has to be a breakthrough design or a first, or something special or unique in its day.

And that is an MGB or a Moggie is it? ( no anti agenda here BTW)

Hmmmmm. Assuming that I wander into a “classic” car show and happen upon a row of the following;
Standard Companion
Ford Classic (hehe)
Victor FC
Victor FD
Morris Marina
TR7 FHC (Speke built specifically)
Dayglo Orange Allegro Estate
Cortina mk4
Triumph 1500TC
And a Very early A reg Sierra

I would very clearly have found myself in heaven, yet none of these cars were particularly well received in their day, nor were they outstanding, not one of them (except the ground breaking but badly received jelly mould) could be classed as a breakthrough, or special, or even unique. But my pop owned every one of them during my childhood. None were that reliable except the Marina and Sierra.

There are many cars from the 60’s and earlier that I would happily walk past in order to get at any of the above.

Simplicity is also a factor. In 1982- a 1972 Minor was a classic car then as it is now.

Err no it wasn’t!! In 1982, and I was there, a 1972 (or any other) Minor was a banger, how we all chortled and laughed when one wheezed and farted its way past us. In 1984 I bought a 1964 Ford 105e...

Innovative = Check

Ground breaking = Check

Design Breakthrough = Check

I loved that car and rebuilt it with my amateur skills and I expect that it was your pop who asked “who let that banger into the show” when I was displaying it all shiny at the E&E county show. Thing is, he wasn’t alone and it is down to “pioneering” (yeah I know) enthusiasts that cars like the 105e survived bangerdom.

So you see even in the early 1980s and using a car which appears to fit your ideal a 20 year old car was firmly banger territory and I was regarded as a fruit loop for wasting money on it when I could have a nice Japanese car or a Capri

Also and only very recently have early XJ-S or the original XJ range of cars started to appreciate – and thank the Lord too, meets every one of your criteria and yet they were regarded by many as bangers, nope I don’t understand it either.

The mere passage of time does make a bad car suddenly become great.

The Stag was pretty horrible and hopeless in the mid 1970’s. Many were bastardised with the “incorrect” engine to try and fix manufacturing issues.

So Is my car or any car that I like a classic in your eyes? = couldn’t give a toss really but please to all those Marina, 1980’s jap box etc etc owners keep em on the roads so I can recall through my rose tinted specs those heady 1970’s and 80’s without seeing show grounds full of moggies and MGB’s (again no agenda here). If your thing is a 1990’s car, save one and quick but it will be a choppy ride to get acceptance judging by some who post on here

How about an even more simple rule....

Turn up at Bromley Pageant or the like and see whether the “classic” car park marshal attempts to redirect you to the public car park.

I expect that my groundbreaking, innovative, design breakthrough, design classic, 18 year old Range Rover (in good shape I might add) would be redirected. Yet the Snag – and I really love that car - with nowt really that ground breaking about any single part of it would be welcomed into the fold.

p.s. oh and you are wrong about the mk1 Golf GTI – Mk2 8-Valve small bumper GTI was much better executed car and more than worthy of all the attention. Just try find one that hasn’t been all messed up.

[rich.]

im still waiting for admin to buy a micra

[Martin Evans]

Well it's been around since 1982, so early ones can be considered classics. That doesn't mean I want one but there are some cars, much older than that, which I wouldn't want.

[TriumphDriver]

this is dull chaps..

But.. any kind of debate usually is. So: we'll let ANY kind of car that anyone likes, in. Regardless of age, price, interest value or rarity.

I then go to this kind of show, and find my interest sidelined amongst large numbers of cars which don't interest me. So: I'll start up a group for cars over a certain age. COS I PERSONALLY LIKE THEM! I then run a show, and people start to attend because they have similar interests.
Along comes a car which isn't within our interest group. Now: do we let him in, as a friendly gesture to a fellow car owner? Next year he brings his club. We're starting to get submerged in cars which aren't in our personal liking group. Room is getting short, and some of the original attendees no longer come. Do we stop these other cars attending? Start to make regulations? Cut-off dates?
If yes, we're exclusivist, elitist, snobbish.
If not, our interest becomes sidelined. SO: off we go and start another show for cars which WE do like. People with similar interests start to attend. Along comes a guy in a car which isn't in our interest group... then the entire cycle starts over again.
How many times does this go on?