I have just read (in Tractor and Machinery, so it may have been in the car mags for a month or two!) that the DVLA have been contacting some Historic Vehicle owners asking for information about major restoration work and check the "provenance" of the parts used - eg if the engine is original. They have also said that their records may be incorrect it the owners have used "new or replica chassis". I wonder if this is the thin end of the wedge for "Practical" classics.
There was also another snippet that may interest the tractor "lovers". Massey Ferguson have introduced a new model in Africa. It's called the "Massey Ferguson 35"! Yes, I know that there was a "35" in the late 50's (ending up with the 35X in 1964 or so), but this is a "NEW" model that just happens to look almost identical to the old one! Considering they sold the rights for the model to "TAFE" in India, I wonder if it's actually a re-badged TAFE and not a genuine Massey Ferguson build. Who knows, perhaps Ford will introduce a 105E Anglia for the African market (though I would be 105 something else!)
DVLA checking up
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tractorman
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suffolkpete
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Re: DVLA checking up
I think this is to do with the EU Historic Vehicle Directive. It seems to be aimed at high value vehicles such as Bugattis where it is worth the owner's while to have custom made replica parts made, also replicas where the replica retains the donor vehicle's registration and thus its historic status, although I suppose it may affect, say, MGBs with Heritage shells. A lot of expensive replicas may end up with Q plates as a result of this.
1974 Rover 2200 SC
1982 Matra Murena 1.6
1982 Matra Murena 1.6
Re: DVLA checking up
This is to do with high end Historic cars.
Cars like Pre 1931 Bentleys have been wholly reproduced including engines and chassis. I have been involved in that side of the business and it gets very differcult to know the difference between genuine and reproduction.
There are more pre 1931 Bentleys around than were actually made by Bentley. This means that some of the cars are not Historic vehicles.
This is where the problems start. A restorer will find half a chassis and a wheel nut and from this build a whole car using new parts. Because a small bit of the car is original the restorer gets it registered as a historic vehicle which then adds to the assumption that the car is genuine.
Reproduction means not made by original manufacturer.
Replica means made by the original manufacturer.
Meaning only Aston Martin can make a replica of the James Bond car, and if another maker does its a reproduction.
Also stolen parts are more common than you might think.
In 2003 ish VOSA introduced vehicle indentity checks. I ead involved with this and I found a few vehicles that been repaired with parts that the owner couldn't explian where the parts came from. We used to stop them from taxing the vehicle until they proved where the bits came from. We had a top secret book of vehicle parts identification features from the manufacturers.
Funny story. Dorset Police were being trained on how to check stolen motorbikes. And as an example a Dorset Truimph Saint police motorcycle was used as a demonstration. They found out the engine was stolen.
When stolen parts get in to the system the above is what happens innocent parties end up with stolen bits.
As for the future, in the UK we are safe but not so in the rest of Europe. A Belgium friend told me he cannot alter any thing on his car. The road worthy test will not pass the car.
In the UK VOSA and the department of transport take the view that providing the mods are safe then crack on. They go on what causes accidents not what someone thinks may cause an accident.
Bob.
Cars like Pre 1931 Bentleys have been wholly reproduced including engines and chassis. I have been involved in that side of the business and it gets very differcult to know the difference between genuine and reproduction.
There are more pre 1931 Bentleys around than were actually made by Bentley. This means that some of the cars are not Historic vehicles.
This is where the problems start. A restorer will find half a chassis and a wheel nut and from this build a whole car using new parts. Because a small bit of the car is original the restorer gets it registered as a historic vehicle which then adds to the assumption that the car is genuine.
Reproduction means not made by original manufacturer.
Replica means made by the original manufacturer.
Meaning only Aston Martin can make a replica of the James Bond car, and if another maker does its a reproduction.
Also stolen parts are more common than you might think.
In 2003 ish VOSA introduced vehicle indentity checks. I ead involved with this and I found a few vehicles that been repaired with parts that the owner couldn't explian where the parts came from. We used to stop them from taxing the vehicle until they proved where the bits came from. We had a top secret book of vehicle parts identification features from the manufacturers.
Funny story. Dorset Police were being trained on how to check stolen motorbikes. And as an example a Dorset Truimph Saint police motorcycle was used as a demonstration. They found out the engine was stolen.
When stolen parts get in to the system the above is what happens innocent parties end up with stolen bits.
As for the future, in the UK we are safe but not so in the rest of Europe. A Belgium friend told me he cannot alter any thing on his car. The road worthy test will not pass the car.
In the UK VOSA and the department of transport take the view that providing the mods are safe then crack on. They go on what causes accidents not what someone thinks may cause an accident.
Bob.
Re: DVLA checking up
Reproduction means not made by original manufacturer.
Replica means made by the original manufacturer.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
Re: DVLA checking up
I'm not concerned, I don't run a clearly post 91 Mini on pre 73 plates, or indeed a LR Defender on them either. For too long, newer cars with long production runs have been rung with earlier ID to become tax free, and I wonder how many stolen classics have been rung with tax free ID and sold on? Or indeed any other ID, lets face it, most classics only have riveted on ID which is easy to swap.
Re: DVLA checking up
Indeed so, Rob. Then there's Reliant, who used nothing more than a permanent marker to put the chassis numbers of Rebel vans and estates on some randomly selected area of the car's engine bay. They had to, the actual chassis number was stamped into the chassis in a place where the floor was attached to the rail so the only way to see that would be to lift the body off.
Imagine Jaguar doing that with their current range..
Imagine Jaguar doing that with their current range..
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
Re: DVLA checking up
There are worse design flaws. Have you tried changing the injector belt on a discovery 3 TDV6? it's a body off job (ok you can bodge it but the manual says to take the body off).
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Re: DVLA checking up
For gods sake take the body off to service the belt. A ridiculous design.
It would be ok it the engine just popped out like a VW beetle.
When I used to rebuild engines I used to stamp my numbering system on the engine. The number included cc and other details the last bit being the invoice number.
Most of my customers never bothered telling DVLA about the new engine.
Who cares about such details on a ten year old family car.
I fitted a 2 litre engine to a 1.6 Cortina Estate because I couldn't do a 1600 in time but had a 2000 so in it went. The owner like the end result even with the 1600 carb it went ok. No extra money because both the 1600 and 2000 Pintos cost the same amount to rebuild.
The Cortina Estate is on my short list as a good work horse. Dam good car.
With high end stuff the engine number is often the same as the chassis number. Matching numbers is a big plus point.
And of course some will change the mumber of a replacement emgine to match. So always check the font used and size.
Rolls-Royce had a problem with a new car because the owner fitted the wrong oil filter. So Rolls-Royce fitted a new engine with the same number and crushed the original. Australia 1980s Silver Spirit.
Bob
It would be ok it the engine just popped out like a VW beetle.
When I used to rebuild engines I used to stamp my numbering system on the engine. The number included cc and other details the last bit being the invoice number.
Most of my customers never bothered telling DVLA about the new engine.
Who cares about such details on a ten year old family car.
I fitted a 2 litre engine to a 1.6 Cortina Estate because I couldn't do a 1600 in time but had a 2000 so in it went. The owner like the end result even with the 1600 carb it went ok. No extra money because both the 1600 and 2000 Pintos cost the same amount to rebuild.
The Cortina Estate is on my short list as a good work horse. Dam good car.
With high end stuff the engine number is often the same as the chassis number. Matching numbers is a big plus point.
And of course some will change the mumber of a replacement emgine to match. So always check the font used and size.
Rolls-Royce had a problem with a new car because the owner fitted the wrong oil filter. So Rolls-Royce fitted a new engine with the same number and crushed the original. Australia 1980s Silver Spirit.
Bob
Re: DVLA checking up
At the moment they are still quoting the points system on the dvla website, if your vehicle meets those requirements. I can't see how they can have an issue. Interstingly here the engine is the least important part.
As said above they seem to be focusing on high end classics which have been "found" in the last few years.
As said above they seem to be focusing on high end classics which have been "found" in the last few years.
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