The Great Train Robbery, BBC1 18/19 Dec

[Phil P]

It was filmed at the Great Central Railway Loughborough. One glaring mistake, well it was to me, they got the loco number right D326. Then when they showed the Police case notes there was a yellow 'post it' note (Where they about in 1963?) on the photo of the loco that said it was a Type 40. No sorry it was a Type 4. It became a Type 40 in late 1968 when BR introduced the TOPS numbering system D326 became 40 126. This number was changed a couple of times to stop it being referred to as the Great Train Robbery loco also it was involved in a couple of accidents/incidents after the robbery. It was scrapped a few years ago. One preserved railway said they had it but they may have used the number.

The number of film companies who get details wrong when the information is easily available is amazing. I was on the set of 'A Wreath of Roses' a few years ago. Part was filmed on the Severn Valley Railway. We pointed out that the film was supposed to be 1946 and the loco they were using was built in 1953. The build plate was visible on the film. The Director said, "Yes I know but I like that one that's why I chose it!" Wah!!

4 wheel drive Austin K2 Ambulance (They were all 2 wheel drive) and a Series 1 Land Rover in 'Ice cold in Alex.' 1950's Thornycroft crash tender and post war Spitfires in 'Battle of Britain' and on and on.

In the GTR film, Police with a white MKII Jag with a full length Webasto sun roof? LWB pick up cab Landrovers in British Army? Hmmm...RAF had some.

Good story but sloppy details!

[hobby]

"Buster" was filmed on the GCR, but I understand that this one was filmed on the Keighley and Worth Valley. To be pedantic it was an English Electric Type 4 which then became the BR Class 40 (there were other Type 4s), I think they used a 37 in the drama though!

Post Its were invented around '68 so you are right they wouldn't have been around.

Most drama/films play fast and loose these days with accuracy... The shame is that it's also slipping into Documentaries, which by their definition should be as accurate as possible but in many (most?) cases no longer are...

[Luxobarge]

Post Its were invented around '68 so you are right they wouldn't have been around.

While we're being pedantic, the glue was discovered/invented in 1968, but they didn't hit the stores as "Post-It Notes" until 1977.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-it_note

Even more reason not to have them in the film though eh?

[/pedant]

[tractorman]

I feel sorry for film producers etc: there will always be a pedant to pick faults and continuity errors and, unless you were about in the early sixties (and old enough to know what you were looking at), there will be all sorts of things that we don't think about that the spotters will find. This ranges from things like curly phone leads - they came out in the sixties but the phones in our house still had the plaited cloth-covered leads (as did the phone in our previous house that was built in 1959). If you saw a 13A plug in a farmhouse, it would have to have been a new installation (many farms still had generators - if anything!) - but round-pin sockets were still widely used. The '60's house had them when we moved in - but was rewired shortly afterwards but kept the old light switches to save money!

Part of the problem is that the common reference sources are from the internet - and we all know how accurate that is!

Two add a couple more errors: there's a Land Rover in 633 Squadron and an 1950's Fordson Major in either 633 squadron or The Dambusters.

Being pedantic: didn't TOPS come in the early 70's? EG I thought the "50s" were blue with a "D 4XX" number and appeared at or around the end of steam. That's only because I saw one at Carlisle station when we went to collect a visitor and it was before we moved in 1972! I only remember because it was a "strange" loco - not that I was a spotter, though the next house was across the valley from the S&C line - which had train loads of Hillmans moving up and down on it!

[suffolkpete]

There was a news item on the BBC that said it was filmed on the K&WVR and they showed an English Electric Type 3 in the clip, although I think that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference from a Type 4 in the dark. The anomaly that I noticed was the phone that warbled instead of ringing. At that time, all phones would have been supplied by the GPO monopoly and would have had bells. For fellow telecoms anoraks, it was a 706, correct for the period.

[hobby]

Being pedantic: didn't TOPS come in the early 70's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Ra ... rrangement

I suppose strictly speaking the class 50s were also EE type 4s!

LB you are right, I read the same wiki entry on post-its but just took the first date ('68) in it to show that it couldn't have existed at the time of the robbery!

[Luxobarge]

LB you are right, I read the same wiki entry on post-its but just took the first date ('68) in it to show that it couldn't have existed at the time of the robbery!

Cool. Amazing that 3M took so long to come out with an actual product eh? The Post-It story is an interesting one.

Cheers!

[tractorman]

I suppose strictly speaking the class 50s were also EE type 4s!

True - I tend to use TOPS numbers rather than class 4 (etc) as I can never remember which were Duffs, Hoovers and so on; saying EE class 4 doesn't work for me but 45, 47 etc does.

To make my sin worse, my model railway (if I ever get it working) is based in and around 1963 so I can use a "47" (Brush cl4) with my steam stuff. Also, I liked the Claytons and Metro-vics that were used on the line I want to represent (the Cumbrian Coast line), so my "stud" is a bit varied! I offer a poor excuse for the 1303 Beetle though: it came as part of a set of 3 VWs and I wanted the splitty camper and pick-up. It will go to a friend eventually - he doesn't mind what era he models and calls it "preserved"!

[hobby]

My spotting days were around the mid 60s to mid 70s in the NW so i never really got into the TOPS classes or the later nicknames, the 50s/Hoovers were "D400s" to us lot when they came out and always went around in pairs in case one broke down!

[Phil P]

The TOPS system came out in 1968 but took some time to get all loco's etc into the system so in 1970 some were still running round with BR numbers on them. When nationalisation of the railways took place in 1947 there are photographs of steam locos still carrying the LMS and GWR numbers and branding in 1955 and later.

Interesting about the 'post it' notes. I didn't know it was that late when they came available I certainly knew they weren't about in 1963. Twisted cotton and curly plastic telephone wires are a favourite with me. Bells on phones are good one. I worked with a guy who who could an amazing 'trim phone' impersonation. I managed to down load the trim phone ring tone onto my mobile. Then the phone packed up and I haven't been able to get it since. Sorry I digress.

EE Type 4 did become a Type 40 under TOPS I think they were Hoovers. The railways have always had some good knicknames for diesels. Gronks, Hoovers, Whistlers, Teddy Bears, Brians. In steam days there were a whole host of names. Jintys, Pugs, Semi's (LMS Coronation Class 4-6-2 with streamlining removed originally but the knickname was used for all the class over time), doodle bugs, Mickey Mouse, Black 5, Streaks, Austin Sevens, Gorilla Mickeys (Black 5 with Caprotti valve gear) Dubb Dees, Super D's, Spaceships and in some areas Rockets (Black 5 with Stephensons valve gear.) Crabs, and on and on.

Is this the time to admit to being a keen railway modeller. I have a 4mm scale layout that goes all round my loft based on 1943-1946 War Department and LMS. 25 loco's: LMS, WD, US Army and USATC. This gives me the opportunity to run all sorts of train set ups, Goods, Passenger, Tank transport, Ambulance trains etc. When the 12" to the foot hobby gets to cold I go to the 4mm to the foot hobby!

Phil