65 CORTINA MK1 GT

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GHT
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#41 Post by GHT » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:18 pm

chap foose wrote:Welding just about done now.
Image
You have put a lot of hard work into this restoration, and you probably know your onions on the MK1 Cortina, or Consul Cortina as the early ones were known as. Not being someone who could hold a candle to you with your skills, this might sound just a little impertinent, I do hope not.
The photo above shows the two holes in the wings that give access to the macpherson struts. This was one of the weakest points in the design of this bodywork. Within a year or two, the struts could actually pop out. The cure was to weld strengthening plates around the holes. Whilst you have the bodywork as it is, putting such strengtheners in now will prevent this occurrence from happening, as would, purists look away now, lining the wheel arches to prevent the road dirt/rock salt/ erosion materials, reaching the rusting point.
I shall look forward to seeing your project finished. A magnificent effort.

Tigdlo
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Location: Royston, Herts

Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#42 Post by Tigdlo » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:48 am

As a past owner of two Mk1 Cortinas, I take issue with your statement that these would rust through within a year or two. I reckon at least three!
The 'strengthener' plates to which you refer, were really only intended to hide any wingworm from the MOT man, but added practically no strength to the strut mounting. It was the structure under the inner wing that carried the loads, and once this had rusted away, no amount of additional plates welded on top would work. How do I know?!
The problem with these was the virtually non-existent rust proofing applied when manufactured - not just applicable to Fords of course. With modern methods, these should last for many years.

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JPB
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#43 Post by JPB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:04 am

Tigdlo wrote:...
The 'strengthener' plates to which you refer, were really only intended to hide any wingworm from the MOT man, but added practically no strength to the strut mounting. It was the structure under the inner wing that carried the loads, and once this had rusted away, no amount of additional plates welded on top would work....
Nail on head there. The load is borne almost entirely by the webs that extend vertically from the legs inboard of the lower arms to the mountings for the struts below the inner wings. Had Ford made thae upper mounts single skinned and attached the inner wing about, rather than atop, the lower loading carried at the top mounts wouldn't compromise even the one remaining layer of steel and that lazy way of locating the turrets is totally superfluous in two, let alone the three layers found on some lashed up examples.
Modern build techniques invariably make the accommodation for the top mounts in a far less rustprone, stronger and more elegant way with a single turret, shorter webs and the (surrounding) inner wing separate and lower to tie the inner wing, suspension upper mount and closure more effectively in a way that also allows more engine bay space, that last not needed in the Cortina shell of course.
John, Operating knackered old sheds as daily transport since 1981. :|

GHT
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#44 Post by GHT » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:42 pm

Tigdlo wrote:As a past owner of two Mk1 Cortinas, I take issue with your statement that these would rust through within a year or two.
Take issue all you like, you weren't in my, bought new, 1966 Cortina, when in 1968, a bang coming from the front nearside, was the result of the strut coming through. After reassuring my wife and her family that we were all ok, I contacted The AA. It was carried on the back of one of their pick up trucks to the dealer from where I bought it. They contacted Ford, who agreed to cover the cost of strengthening around the hole. Both sides had a plate welded above and below the weak spot. The dealer let it be known that Ford always carried the cost of this, if the vehicle was three years old or less, and without high mileage. So many owners were unaware of this and simply paid it themselves thinking that the car was out of the twelve month warranty.
When I sold the car, the buyer actually asked me if the struts had been strengthened, so common was it back then.

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JPB
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#45 Post by JPB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:28 pm

Fortunately, manufacturers don't feed that sort of tripe to their buyers these days and [the manufacturers] have a better grasp of how to cater for such loads. Fatigue or later corrosion, the top plate locates the strut but bears little of the load which, as a quick look at the methods slide for Cortinas 1 & 2 would show by all of the red shading fore & aft of the webs, is borne by these and patching it the way you described was as horrendous a bodge then as now. We saw many Sierras with holed front chassis legs under the bulkhead/heelboard seam at their first MOT, the Ford dealers' drivers always came down to spirit the cars off under cover then fixed that discreetly too but the issue there wasn't the stress, which had been pretty well looked at during the drawing, just good old inconsistent steel quality.
John, Operating knackered old sheds as daily transport since 1981. :|

GHT
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#46 Post by GHT » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:59 pm

JPB wrote:Fortunately, manufacturers don't feed that sort of tripe to their buyers these days and [the manufacturers] have a better grasp of how to cater for such loads.
Too true, but it took a government department and litigation to force them to do so. If that sort of problem occurred today there would be an immediate recall. I'm old enough to remember when the Mini came out, when it was called The Austin Seven and The Mini Minor. The subframe was sealed with the floor pan overlapping, at the bottom of the bulkhead, facing the incoming weather, as a subsequence, the floor of the car would get wet. The overlap was soon reversed when dealers reported the water damage, but I can't remember any recalls or reimbursements.

Tigdlo
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#47 Post by Tigdlo » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:58 pm

GHT, my comments were, in case you hadn't realised, tongue in cheek!
The experience that you described doesn't surprise me. In 1968, a friend of mine purchased a 1965 Cortina very cheaply because it had failed it's first mot due to severe rusting around the rear shackle mountings. He ended up replacing both rear chassis rails completely. The ones he removed had rusted through from the inside over the full length, apparently due to there being no paint inside. Strangely, the rest of the car was in very good order, and it served him well as a family car for several years.
As I said before, this sort of problem applied to most makes of cars, from Rolls Royce downwards!
I might just add, I enjoyed owning both my mk1 Cortinas, and wish that I still had them.

GHT
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#48 Post by GHT » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:55 pm

Tigdlo wrote:GHT, my comments were, in case you hadn't realised, tongue in cheek!
When you said that they last three years I guessed that you were being cynical towards Ford, but because you are new to the forum it was hard to gauge. The members here all know my love of banter, they have all been in the firing line, and I have to take it too, being old and wearing dodgy hats causes much merriment.
The reason I came back a bit sharp was probably because it prompted a reminisce that I thought long forgotten. It was an altogether scary moment. Thank goodness it was on an urban road near to where I lived.
So having got off on the wrong foot let's make amends and point you in the direction of a brilliant collection of MK1's: Saloons, GT's, Estates, Lotus/Cortinas. They are all at Glam Cabs,at The Goodwood Revival. Tell you what, the scenery's not that bad either.

rich.
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#49 Post by rich. » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:35 pm

GHT wrote: The members here all know my love of banter, they have all been in the firing line, and I have to take it too, being old and wearing dodgy hats causes much merriment..
would we mock you ght?? oh well if you insist ;)
if you can imagine the love child of a dodgy cray twin & tim wannacot with a dash david dickenson orange thrown in for good measure :lol: :scared:

GHT
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Re: 65 CORTINA MK1 GT

#50 Post by GHT » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:37 pm

Oi! Is that me you are talking about? Kray twin? David Dickinson? Sure you don't want to add that camp designer: Lawrence Llewelyn-Bowen? (You don't see or hear much of him these days, do you?)
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Anymore nonsense out of you and I shall send Hercules round to sort you out.
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