Vulgalour's Vehicles - 10/03 Ignition Switch Woe

Post pictures and stories about your cars both present and past. Also post up "blogs" on your restoration projects - the more pictures the better! Note: blog-type threads often get few replies, but are often read by many members, and provide interest and motivation to other enthusiasts so don't be disappointed if you don't get many replies.
Message
Author
User avatar
Mitsuru
Posts: 2300
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:42 am
Location: County Durham

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#11 Post by Mitsuru » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:09 pm

Hello I thought I recognized a fellow retro rider, nice to see you on here too :thumbs:
I'm Diabetic,& disabled BUT!! NOT DEAD YET!!

vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#12 Post by vulgalour » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:13 am

The Wedgister I keep that has details of any Princesses and Ambassadors I've found out about highlights about 160-200 cars still exist, though the vast majority of those appear to be on SORN and there's only a tiny number that are still used daily as mine is. I've been doing some work on the Wedgister tonight to bring it up to date again, especially since a few more have come out of the woodwork this year. There's bound to be more out there too so I'd expect a top UK figure of around 300 cars both on and off the system. Add in the European and Ireland contingency and you've probably got another 100 or so still surviving, they were quite popular in Holland so I expect there's a number still over there and I've seen French examples come up for sale and even a video of an Italian survivor. There's also some in New Zealand and at least one in Cyprus in recent years.

So take my 400-500 figure to be a worldwide estimate, for a car that was produced in relatively large volume only 30-40 years ago that's a pretty poor survival rate.

Unsurprisingly, I've never seen another Princess or even an Ambassador in my travels. I can't count the Leylandprincess forum (I'm on there too, it's where I found out about the free HLS) members I met at Brooklands because that was a special event. The old Polo I had and even the BX I saw out on my travels but surprisingly I never met another Maestro, perhaps it's a BL thing.

Mitsuru: I hope you finish that Chrysler one day, it has great potential to be really interesting, not something I expected to say of a Neon.

mach1rob
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#13 Post by mach1rob » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:23 am

I suppose the problem is they were ideal donors for 4 pot callipers, and they were cheap enough to buy the whole car, nick the brakes and scrap the rest.

Displacers also seem to be a problem, there's a post up on ARO saying the aforementioned Italian Princess is now off the road thanks to a blown displacer, so the hunt is on.

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#14 Post by JPB » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:00 am

mach1rob wrote:I suppose the problem is they were ideal donors for 4 pot callipers, and they were cheap enough to buy the whole car, nick the brakes and scrap the rest.

Displacers also seem to be a problem, there's a post up on ARO saying the aforementioned Italian Princess is now off the road thanks to a blown displacer, so the hunt is on.
Yeah, and that's really frustrating because if valves are fitted before the diaphragms let go, then they can be saved and made virtually indestructible. At least a post-'75 Maxi can be changed over to the earlier Hydrolastic setup with the addition of a different front subframe and fresh pipes. :idea: Has anyone looked into doing that with an ADO71, maybe using ADO17 bottles as 'crab and wedge have similar weight distribution figures. I've never seen or heard of this being done but it might be worth exploring as 'lastic bottles are more readily available as a result of their more dependable nature.

I know a local Allegro owner who has made another mod to his car's original bottles, this involving welding a steel ring with both male and female threads in place of the crimp where the diaphragm would normally be held in place. He made new diaphragms from polyurethane and these were retained by an internal ring, screwed down the female part of the new thread, the gas chambers were fabricated from scratch using a thicker gauge of steel so that a Citroen-style hexagon could be welded beneath the new valve at the top, this allows him to tighten down the gas chambers onto the fluid vessels tightly enough and these modified units are then filled firstly with air from the top, then the fluid set by the usual method. The poly diaphragms are more compliant than original rubber yet provide superior damping, a win-win situation and a car that now rides as well as any Citroen but doesn't feel at all bouncy, just super comfortable.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

User avatar
TerryG
Posts: 6754
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:54 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#15 Post by TerryG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:19 am

Isn't it possible to convert to EAS or springs? I realise that would rather affect the ride quality but it would save the car if spares aren't available.
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.

User avatar
JPB
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#16 Post by JPB » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:55 pm

The thing with hydro suspension setups is that the bottles have no need to be directly above their links since the pipes would allow them to be placed pretty much anywhere. With a conventional medium, then you'd want the springs and dampers in a position where they'd be directly connected as close to their links as possible to minimise stresses. So unless you were to refabricate the car's inner wings, bulkhead and/or chassis legs depending upon where you could fit some springs then not simply, no.
Look at how the Rover P6 got around the need for differently positioned springs at least in the front, that's the sort of rethinking that would be needed and with it the cash.
But taking apart and modifying Hydragas displacers isn't a big job for anyone with basic machine shop facilities - certainly a darned sight easier than remanufacturing the car's basic structure and without any need for approval afterwards - then, once they're done, they'd far outlast springs and dampers as well as being considerably less complex in their function. Labour to split them, fit the new diaphragms then reassemble and repressurise ready for initial fitting to the liquid side of the system is - I'm reliably informed - around eight hours so for an outlay of typically £500 the system would be set to go with the only further attention being possible at home if - say - someone wanted to adjust the fluid/air bias to set one end of the car at a different level, the initial loss of gas through the original rubbers being how some Hydragas cars are seen with excess negative camber and too low at the front.
Emile has so far only done his own car and a German-owned ADO16 VdP that, bizarrely, was converted to Hydragas. He's rarely about for long enough and has no interest in the cars other than from the POV of someone who likes them and doesn't want to see anything wasted (is that how some of us got into old cars?). ;)
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true.. :oops:

vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#17 Post by vulgalour » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:06 pm

I do like the idea of upgrading the existing system and I certainly don't want to do away with the late Dr Moulton's ideas for a more 'conventional' set up. The suspension on the Princess has only been matched for me by the BX I owned and while the BX was more nimble in the twisty stuff - in part due to having PAS - it wasn't as floaty comfortable as the Princess. It's likely I'll fork out at a later date to get the spheres future-proofed, but I don't have the skills or tools to do it myself, definitely a job for someone else to tackle.

Happily, the smell in the HLS is becoming much more like the clean HL interior so I think I've broke through the worst of the storage ick that was in there. Certainly the seats where they've been cleaned feel soft and fuzzy like they should, there's a good reason they call it the teddy bear interior. Still a long way to go before the HLS is up to my standards of cleanliness and the engine is up to my desired standard but I'll plod along like I did with the HL and we'll be sorted in no time at all.

vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#18 Post by vulgalour » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:07 am

Working through my checklist, I can update it again now. (items with -- either side have been sourced/done, I don't know how to do strikethrough on this forum)

Engine Stuff
£10-15 - second-hand battery
£15 - head gasket (bought full gasket set)
£? - head check, skim if necessary.
£? - 2 core plugs
£0.20 - Carb dashpot inners circlip/o-ring - lost during service, still hunting for it.
£1.50-2 - 1 spark plug
£10 - contact points
£? - water pump - might as well if I'm doing the timing belt
£10-15 - rubber fuel pipes

MoT stuff
£80 - 4 tyres (probably part worns) and wheel balance
£15 - Tracking
£FREE - bulbs
£12 - wiper blades
£FREE - clutch bleed
£0-10 brake bleed
£FREE - inspect discs and pads - preliminary check shows they might be okay Drums seem to be functioning well.
£? - Brake flexi
£20 (estimate) - suspension pump up
£15 (pair) - suspension rebound strap
£15 - fresh oil
£FREE - fresh antifreeze
£? - exhaust blow fixed - could be a joint, could be a box, don't know yet.
£8 - air filter
£? - driver's door lock to work on the key
£8-16 - Track rod ends, pair
£? - Balljoints, at least one
£? - any necessary welding

eBay is very useful for some of this stuff and competitively priced.
Last edited by vulgalour on Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TerryG
Posts: 6754
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:54 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#19 Post by TerryG » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:35 pm

Nobody has ever asked for that before. I have added a custom code for you. If you quote this message you will see how to do a strikethrough :)
strikethrough
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.

vulgalour
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Austin Morris Princess X2

#20 Post by vulgalour » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:34 pm

Cheers TerryG... and that's the first and last time anything to do with strikes and BL is mentioned here, yes? Good :lol:

Been wanting to crack on with a few jobs on both cars, mostly just tinkering and cleaning really, but I'm snowed under with work lately. Good for the bank balance, bad for the tinker time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests