A Landy is reborn

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tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#211 Post by tractorman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:24 pm

It's getting near the end of the "Outdoor pursuit" season now: I've ordered a new wash basin for my bedroom, which is part of this winter's project!

I've spent the last fortnight sorting out the instrument panel and fuses etc. I suspect the "Main" relay (for the ignition-controlled circuits) and the flasher unit will be a real pain to change if they fail, but at least they are nice and secure where they are (hidden behind the black connector for the indicator switch).

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The steering wheel is off to make it easier to fit the instrument panel and will be refitted when I know the circuits all work as they should! I've fitted a new wiper switch since the photo was taken - only because the pin that holds the knob in place had rusted solid on the old one! I'm undecided about connecting the two sockets (lower LH side of instument panel) as there will be a cigar lighter fitted when the lower dash is done (the thick purple cable is for that). Also, the leads (Brown and Black hanging down in the pic) are well past their prime!

The new fuse boxes solved the space problem nicely, though the top ("Switched Circuits'") box is upside down (and the fuses are numbered). That was the only way I could get space to remove the covers - which will go on once the fuses have been fitted and testing done. I fear the wiring isn't as neat as the under-bonnet stuff!

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I hope to make a start on testing tomorrow, I've been sorting out some stone chips on the Golf for the last day or two, so things have been delayed slightly. At least the Golf has a 1.9 engine - no recall needed, even if it does lie about its fuel consumption!

The other important job is to get a wiring diagram sorted out from the scraps of paper that I have. Merging the Montego engine bits to the Land Rover bits and then my modifications is not something I really want to draw on the PC!

I hope the weather holds up long enough for me to get the mods done on the lower dash, but I doubt I'll get it ready for fitting before winter comes. That is probably a good thing as it will need to be trimmed before it is fitted and the "topless" Land Rover will be in the tractor shed over winter.

tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#212 Post by tractorman » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:58 pm

With some trepidation, I connected the battery and made a start with "commissioning" the electrics. The first fuse was put in (for the lights) and the dip beam worked without problems (as did the side lights and panel lights) I discovered main beam wasn't coming on. After some cursing and some substitution, I discovered that the live feed's connector in the relay socket was playing silly beggars and, with careful wiggling of the lead, I managed to get the relay back properly and had a full set or properly behaved lights. I carried on through the rest of the circuits and didn't have many problems until I discovered the gauges didn't do anything. Then I realised that the "Low Fuel" light wouldn't work when I earthed the lead at the tank end. It was only then that I noticed the oil pressure warning hadn't come on (I'd been running the engine at one stage and hadn't noticed!). I was all for throwing the hammer at it, but the hammer was too far to reach, so I had a look at the fuse box, tried to connect the lead to the voltage regulator and remembered why it wasn't connected - I couldn't get it in place without some pointed pliers! That sorted and I got the full set of warning lights and the fuel gauge also moved nicely when the lead was shorted to earth.

I started the engine again and realised that the cold start warning light wasn't going out. The short story is that there are two relays on the Montego cold start circuit, one has a lead to the warning light and the other has a lead to the alternator. I changed them over this morning and, in spite of having good connections (the warning light works if I put power to the relay-end terminal), the timer relay's output must be u/s (though the heaters work well). I think the easiest answer is to extend the lead and take the feed from the actual heater output (on that relay).

As an aside - the engine started almost immediately the other day and produced a lot less smoke (which was probably unburnt fuel). I am hoping that is a good sign and, if I start and move the machine regularly through the winter, it shouldn't be difficult to start next year and it will stop the clutch sticking.

I haven't done the wiper motor connections yet as I discovered that the connector is badly corroded (and the leads were a real bodge too). I hope a new connector will arrive tomorrow and then I can finish that job too. I also need to extend the leads to the light switch as I was a bit mean when I made them up (and I forgot the switch is at the top of the panel, so a bit further from the actual dashboard).

I ended up today's efforts by moving Land Rover stuff from the garage to the shed for winter. I've also moved a few of my storage cases that contain either Land Rover bits or nuts/bolts/screws etc. I fear winter looms and, as the new wash basin and bits have arrived, it's time to be a DIY freak again. I still haven't worked out what colour to paint my bedroom; I need to decide soon so that I can order a carpet: the one that's there is about 35 years old and was a £40 bargain when we bought it.

tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#213 Post by tractorman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:20 pm

A confession: I was too clever when wiring the instruments! I also misread the Montego wiring diagram (again!) and made the mistake I made when originally testing the cold start wiring (and forgot that I had made the mistake). For some reason (probably the ring terminal on the lead), I thought the lamp went to earth rather than getting a feed from the supply. :oops: :oops:

So, one of tomorrow's jobs will be to rearrange the supply lead to the instruments and warning lights so that the cold start warning lamp gets a live feed. That's just a case of swapping some spade terminals for bullets and it will actually be a neater job.

I tested my theory by holding the ring terminal on the voltage regulator's supply terminal and the lamp works correctly.

I say works correctly in as much as the light comes on for about four seconds and the heater relay times out at ten, but at least the light comes on and goes out!

I had more success with the wiper motor though: the new socket came this morning and I had no problems with putting terminals on the leads, but a little bit of force was needed to get the terminals into the socket. Once I had connected the switch up again, the wipers did what they were supposed to do.

I say did what they were supposed to do in that they would do so if I had the arms and blades on them!

I'm hoping the cable I ordered the other day arrives tomorrow so I can extend the cables for the light switch as well as sorting the cold start warning light. That would mean the instrument panel and steering wheel could be refitted and the Landy will be ready for "Winter Quarters".

However, tomorrow's weather forecast suggests I might not actually move it tomorrow!

suffolkpete
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:54 am

Re: A Landy is reborn

#214 Post by suffolkpete » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:13 pm

tractorman wrote: I tested my theory by holding the ring terminal on the voltage regulator's supply terminal and the lamp works correctly.

I say works correctly in as much as the light comes on for about four seconds and the heater relay times out at ten, but at least the light comes on and goes out!
That is probably correct operation, some systems leave the glow plugs energised for a few seconds after starting the engine as it reduces emissions.
1974 Rover 2200 SC
1982 Matra Murena 1.6

tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#215 Post by tractorman » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:36 am

I suspect Pete's right about this one - the annoying thing for me is that there is nothing to say how the relay is supposed to work (or even what the terminals are connected to inside the device). The only source of info is the Hayes manual for the Montego/Maestro diesel and it barely mentions the cold-start system (apart from the heater plugs). If I knew the "logic" of the system, life would be a lot easier! Apart from not listing the relay on the Bosch site, any diagrams of similar systems only show the terminals going to a "box" - not the relay coils or contacts (or electronic circuits).

With hindsight, it would have been easier to make the heaters manually operated like the big tractor one is (a large glow plug in the inlet manifold that, when hot, opens a valve to let diesel spray onto the heater element). Such a system can have disadvantages as I found when trying to start a Ferguson 35 (not a Massey Ferguson 35), which used the Standard diesel engine: an indirect injection engine which was notoriously bad to start when cold. I only found out that the air cleaner wasn't connected when a large flame came close to setting my right leg on fire!

kstrutt1
Posts: 516
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:55 pm
Location: essex

Re: A Landy is reborn

#216 Post by kstrutt1 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:12 pm

My dad used to have two glow plugs in the air intake of his single cylinder marine engine, just flicking them on for 20 seconds to warm the air was enough to start it in all weathers. Some of the military engines also had a cap you could remove to squirt easy start type liquid into the inlet manifold which also works very well.

The glow plugs should stay on for a few seconds after a start, today they even use them during light load driving to aid combustion.

tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#217 Post by tractorman » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:17 pm

The older David Brown engines had a similar "Ether Plug" on their manifolds and they had a felt pad for the ether. In fact, the "Thermostart" on the big tractor is screwed into the hole that would have held the plug on earlier models. The rule for the thermostart was/is to hold the key in "Heat" position for ten seconds, try to start the engine for about fifteen seconds and repeat the process. I am lucky with the big tractor though: it usually starts within two or three seconds without heat!

I managed to get the wires rearranged this morning. I was a bit miffed as the postie hadn't brought the new cable for the headlamp supply, so I couldn't finish the wiring off. I was even more miffed when, at five this evening, I opened the front door (for a Tesco delivery) and found that the postie HAD been! The lights are now wired up and the instrument panel is in position, though not screwed in place. So tomorrow's job will be to check that it all works properly (though I did check the gauges etc after I'd connected them up again) and get the steering wheel back on. I also found out why the fuel gauge wasn't moving - and connected the leads to the fuel tank unit to solve the problem! The cordless drill (in its box) had been on the fuel tank when I was putting the tank unit's earth to the chassis and I only spotted the problem when I moved it out of the way!

I also remembered to trim the cable ties!

tractorman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Wigton, Cumbria

Re: A Landy is reborn

#218 Post by tractorman » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:15 pm

After several delays this morning, I managed to get the instrument panel and steering wheel refitted and the electrics checked. I've done some "road testing" too - from garage to tractor shed. Unfortunately, there's something rough in the drive-train somewhere - possibly the back propshaft, so that's another thing to check next year (along with getting the springs to move a little).

There may be one problem with the tractor shed - the eagle-eyed may spot that it has been reversed in and the front is only just under cover. The observant may have noticed the top of the windscreen is higher than the back of the shed: I suspect that putting the "complete" vehicle in forwards may mean some sticks out of the shed!

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I've ordered £200's worth of beech this week, so I fear Home Improvements will start in a few days!

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