1965 singer vogue recomission

[kevin]

Wow! That's what I call commitment.

Just the one thing though, why the inner tubes? Please check and double check before using these, even with tube-type tyres, on a car whose rims are intended for tubeless tyres only. The result of mixing the types can be nasty.

erm...on the recommendation of vintage tyres. will see what is fitted when i strip the old tyres off (ie if there are tubes already fitted)
gonna enjoy this car once its done and she should be in a usable, reliable state after a good old shakedown.
rims will need a repaint so im going to utilise my electrolysis tank to remove the rust and old paint (just a big plastic tank, some metal rods, soda crystals and a battery charger. really effective and cheap)
also spoke with these guys today
http://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/
ordering the iwata az3hte2 on monday along with an inline filter and pressure gauge. taking along a small panel for a colour match. been a long time since i did any painting with anything other than a rattle can but its something i need to relearn.
only the bonnet and front wing tops to do..how hard can it be!..lol

[JPB]

They shouldn't have advised that you fit tubed tyres to tubeless rims, here's hoping that they made a simple error rather than knowingly suggesting something so risky.

[tractorman]

I echo John's concerns as, coincidentally, my Series IV Minx had tubes when I bought it and, not long afterwards, I had a puncture and, as the tyre was low on tread, I got the garage to put a new tyre on. That was when I realised it had tubes and, on advice from the tyre fitter, I had a tube fitted with the new tyre. Within a month I had had two punctures with the new tyre and one or two on the other wheels! The boss came to check after the third or fourth puncture in a month and said it was the tube that was causing the problem. They took the tubes out as and when I had punctures and, within a couple of months all four tyres were tubeless - and I didn't have any more problems.... with the tyres that is!!

[kevin]

thanks for the heads up guys. how does one check if a rim is a tubeless or tubed type then?

kev

[JPB]

In the case of the rims found as standard on those Rootes Audax and later Arrow series cars, plus the vast majority of other British cars of the period, then they were originally intended to use tubeless tyres as these offered several safety-related advantages.
The wheels themselves have slight, but significant differences in the shape of the bead areas where tube type tyres will fail to fit correctly into the edges of the rim and, under deflation of the spectacular and instant sort that tubed tyres will tend to demonstrate when they let go, these tyres will be more likely to roll out of the rim, leaving that corner of the car scraping along the road on the steel edges of the wheel.

Then there's the issue mentioned by Tractorman which is one that crops up when a tubeless tyre is fitted with a tube. Tubeless tyres' internal surfaces are ribbed, these ribs rub on the tubes and an awful lot of friction is created in there, leading ultimately to the sudden failure mentioned.

If the tyres and the tubes are compatible, IE if you're fitting tubed tyres with the appropriate tubes, then the friction issue won't be the main source of trouble as plenty of French chalk will keep the smooth surfaces of tube type tyres from overheating. However, the fit of the tyres into the beads may not be satisfactory.
Make sure that the supplier isn't one of those which mistakenly advises people to fit tubes to any older rims "in case they leak air". Some people genuinely believe that anything old must by default be incapable of holding air but even very rusty wheels can be cleaned up satisfactorily and - provided that these wheels are structurally sound - any leaks around the rivets or welds where the rims join the hubs can be sealed perfectly well with a little sealant of the appropriate type.

The differences in shape that I mentioned are easier to understand on old commercial wheels where they're more pronounced such as the ones in this helpful illustration from the web:

[tractorman]

Yes, the boss at the garage said it was the casing that was causing the punctures - the tyres were designed to be used without tubes - hence the problem.

I don't know if it's still the same, but tubeless tyres used to be marked as such for the reasons John mentions. I well remember father being quite excited about being able to "throw away" the tubes when he got his first set of tubeless ones (I think it was on the '56 Minor, but more likely the '62 one) and explaining how superior they were to a 10 year old (or less) me! not that he was a great mechanic or anything (if only...)

[kevin]

great info chaps, many thanks.
looks like 4 tubes going on eblag then

kev

[JPB]

great info chaps, many thanks.
looks like 4 tubes going on eblag then

kev

Assuming that the tyres are tubeless ones then yes, that's a solution, but if the tyres are tube type and as such intended for the deeper bead of tube type rims, then they'll need to be rehomed too.
I'd be communicating with the supplier about now though, if they're mis-selling stuff and giving inappropriate advice then no way should you be responsible for any losses incurred.

[kevin]

rang the suppliers and as you have pointed out they are tubeless tyres but they recommend tubes as the rims are old and may leak!
im sure that with a good clean up they will be airtight and safe. thanks for the advice however, probably saved a drama for me there

kev

[JPB]

they recommend tubes as the rims are old and may leak!

I really had hoped that people wouldn't still be giving such potentially catastrophic advice in this day and age! I'm glad that the tyres are suitable for the wheels but it amazes me that people who should know better, such as those involved commercially in the supply of tyres, are giving out potentially dangerous advice. I guess their intentions were good but would it hurt these specialists to read up a little on their specialism before misleading customers, albeit most probably unintentionally?

When a steel rim looks a bit grotty, a good splosh of something appropriately sticky on the rims and a correspondingly good splosh of bead paste on the tyres themselves should be enough to accommodate any slightly pitted areas that might otherwise have caused slow leaks, and all without risking unnecessary bouts of spontaneous deflation.
Your wheels won't leak, not once you've given them an electrolytic bath and painted them with some suitable cellulose or enamel, and the car will look very cool indeed with proper white banded tyres fitted.