Zel's Fleet Blog...Rover, Renault, Peugeot, Trabant, Invacar & Sinclair C5

[rich.]

Big end?

[Zelandeth]

What is the result? Con rod?

Unknown!

Sadly as I was on my way to an event when it happened, once the car was recovered I just had to leg it down to the train station and jump on a train to Birmingham instead. Once I'm back from the convention on Wednesday I'll start to dig into it.

Thinking about the symptom and how quickly it unfolded I'm thinking that the biggest contenders are a broken ring which has got itself jammed in the exhaust port now the engine has stopped (it didn't just die - I turned it off, and remember it COULD just stop dead when driving in this because of the freewheel mechanism on 4th gear), a broken rod, or the needle bearings in one of the little ends having come apart. Apparently the factory ones use an ally cage which can wear out, resulting in escaped needle rollers. The fact that it was still idling after the initial incident until I turned it off a couple of seconds later tends to make me think that it's not a snapped rod, as when one cylinder was down on compression when the head gasket failed it *really* didn't want to idle at all.

Sadly not going to be any updates on this really till Wednesday or Thursday as I'm currently 58 miles away from the car and otherwise engaged until then.

[Zelandeth]

Well it's been a good weekend of escapism, however all good things must come to an end, so back home this afternoon and back to normality.

Absolutely knackered now, and been kinda busy unpacking and catching up with boring household nonsense from having been away for several days.

I managed to find ten minutes to examine the Trabant though.

Plugs out and we have immediate evidence of some issues with the number two cylinder. There has clearly been something bouncing around in there.



There's definitely some impact marks on the plug and the gap has closed up a bit.

Both pistons are moving though, so it doesn't look like we have a broken rod. So something has made its way into the combustion chamber, and my guess based on how it's behaving has got itself wedged in the exhaust or induction ports. The question of course is *what?* Bit of a piston ring which has come apart (which is my current favourite theory), a needle roller from a bearing that's come apart, or some completely foreign matter from somewhere?

That's probably a decent starting point though. We might not need to completely dismantle the bottom end. Maybe, if we're lucky.

[rich.]

My dad bought a tidy cavalier back in the 80s.. a few weeks later the engine started making a tapping noises... I checked the oil and dropped the car off at the garage.. after a discussion/bollocking from the mechanic they agreed to investigate.. head off and a stray nut from the carb was found...

[Zelandeth]

My dad bought a tidy cavalier back in the 80s.. a few weeks later the engine started making a tapping noises... I checked the oil and dropped the car off at the garage.. after a discussion/bollocking from the mechanic they agreed to investigate.. head off and a stray nut from the carb was found...

Ladas are prone to having the little nuts which secure the air cleaner housing onto the studs on the top of the carb vibrate themselves loose. So far I've always been lucky, in that in one case I found the nut rattling around inside the air cleaner, and in the other case the entire stud managed to wedge itself in the choke.

-- -- --

Suffice to say this rather put a damper on my plans to be productive over the weekend.



Today I had enough energy to actually try to do *something* for an hour or so, so decided to go see if I could ascertain what had happened on the Trabant.

I'd seen evidence of something in the combustion chamber on number two looking through the plug hole, so off with the head.



Not unlike what I was expecting to see to be honest, and that definitely would explain the Unhappy Noises we encountered while driving. Something has obviously managed to get itself ingested by the cylinder.



This is evidently what was causing the lockup as once the head was removed the engine could be rotated normally. I was kind of expecting the jug to have been absolutely destroyed based on both what I heard and seeing the state of the top of the piston.



Evidently not. Yes there's a bit of wear there, but this doesn't look any worse than the other cylinder did when I changed the head gasket on that.

This is what is left of what was floating around in there.



Answers on a postcard as to what these bits of metal used to be? It's ferrous, but can be bent with pliers, so it doesn't seem to be hardened like I'd generally expect the rollers from a bearing to be.

The engine rotated just fine by hand, and spinning it over on the starter didn't result in any unusual noises. So I did the obvious thing, cleaned it up as best I could, threw a new head gasket on and bolted it back together.



Didn't sound odd with compression either...So I hooked the plugs up, turned fuel on and went for a start.

https://youtu.be/3inCN5zIO34

Sounds...Pretty much exactly like it did before to me! A little louder here because there's no cowling on obviously, but really doesn't seem any more rattly...in fact if anything less so. Goes without saying I only ran the engine for a minute or two tops like this so it didn't overheat.

My gut feeling is that piston needs to be changed no matter what our prognosis is, as the rough surface will cause hot spots. Probably likewise the head - though I'm willing to listen to experience from those who know these engines better on that.

This is where I had to leave it today as I was thoroughly out of energy by the time I'd got here, for all it was probably half an hour's work if that.

The next question of course is what's our next step?

Does that little bit of metal look like something that's been ingested by the engine from external possibly at some point in distant history? Or does it look like something that's escaped from the internals, and is likely to be the first bit of many if we let the engine run longer?

Basically...Do we stop here, or do we continue digging deeper? I'm inclined to pull at least one of the jugs and take a peek down into the crankcase and see if it's full of bits of metal. I do have all the gaskets necessary to put things back together after that.

Hmm...

[rich.]

Is there a drain plug you could put an endoscope in for a look?

[Zelandeth]

Think my next steps with this will be as follows.

First up, do a compression test to confirm that both cylinders are (at least more or less) in spec, and are reasonably close to each other. Takes five minutes and very quickly should tell me if there's any critical damage to the rings that I can't see or if the jugs are more badly worn than I think. Not expecting this to show anything up really as the engine started easily and idled evenly, but while I've got things already in bits this is a good time to replace any parts that are obviously worn out.

Properly pressure wash the engine. It's a disgusting slime ball which makes it unpleasant to work on. It also can't be helping cooling. If I'm going to be opening up the crankcase I'd really rather it be as clean as possible first to minimise the odds of dropping grime in there.

Pull the jugs and go magnet fishing. I don't think you can really see much with the jugs removed as there will be a load of crankshaft in the way. However I'm hoping that by wiggling a magnet on a stick down in there if there's any further ferrous debris floating around in the crankcase I can extract it before it eventually finds its way into the cylinders. The only way to really go better than that would be to remove the engine and shake it upside down and see what falls out or to split the case. The potential for there to still be more bits in there is probably my single biggest concern at the moment. May also see about getting an endoscope involved at this point if there's room to get one in there.

With the jugs removed this will also allow me to check the bearings at both ends of the con rods for excess play and to properly assess the condition of the rings and pistons. Plus will allow me to try to smooth out things on the damaged piston crown a bit. Getting to the edges would be really difficult with it in situ.

Then chuck it back together and see what happens I guess!

[Zelandeth]

Still very short on stamina but I did manage an hour's usefulness this afternoon.

Between my knackered one, half a donated one and a service kit I had enough bits to re-re-rebuild a mechanical fuel pump for the Rover.



Still a right faff trying to get the rearmost bolt back in. Really doesn't look like it should be anywhere near as awkward to get to as it is.



Fuel filter is staying where it is for now as it does seem that there's quite a bit of sediment being pulled through from the tank and it's far easier to monitor that when the filter is horizontal.

The engine was run fully up to temperature and so far the pump seems to be behaving. I've now left everything to cool again at which point I will re-check for any leaks. How far do I trust it not to leak? About this far.



Given my history with this fuel system the answer is "Not at all." Fully expecting this to start misbehaving in some way pretty much immediately.

Having a working (for now) mechanical pump back in the Rover has allowed me to retrieve this pump though which I can now return to TPA.



Which I'll hopefully get done in the next few days, then can actually look at getting her out of the garage for the first time this year. Precisely how it's already June I've no idea.

[rich.]

As sludge is coming through are you going to get the tank out and clean it out?

[Zelandeth]

As sludge is coming through are you going to get the tank out and clean it out?

The tank is going to need to come out one way or another anyway. The gauge sender is dead and the return line needs to be properly sorted longer term and the issue there is the fitting going into the tank itself is clogged. As Rover in their infinite wisdom combined this all into an assembly that goes into the bottom of the tank, that's a tank out job to sort anyway. So at some point that will indeed need to happen.

The amount of crud that's come through so far isn't enough to alarm or worry me, just a little bit of gritty residue in the bottom of the filter - I've seen far worse from the lines and such from a car that's been sitting and have it settle down after a short period - but it's definitely going to need to be monitored. The tank when I got the car was basically full so I'm hoping that's saved it from a lot of condensation damage you might otherwise have seen. Given how many orders of magnitude easier this would be with the car on a four post lift this may well end up being a job I farm out to a garage, as discovering exactly how much fuel I failed to drain from the tank when it pours in my face as I go to disconnect the fitting which then probably rounds or shears off just doesn't sound like my idea of fun.

-- -- --

Some considerable number of months ago I pulled the cylinder heads off a certain Rover P6. This resulted in my garage ending up looking like even more of a disaster area once I was done than usual. TPA had been all but buried and walking past her to gain access to the rear of the garage had started to involve an ever increasing amount of mountaineering. Owning to the garage being so narrow it's just annoying enough to squeeze in past a car parked in there that instead putting things away properly to just pile items up on and around the rear end of the car that's parked there. Especially as the paint is in such a state that scratching it really isn't high on the worry list as you'd never notice anyway. The intention is always for this to be a transitionary state of things and that you'll go back later to tidy up properly...However that keeps not happening. My garage is an absolute disaster at the best of times and it makes my teeth itch every time I even think about it - but I've just never had enough time in a single block available to get a skip in and pull *everything* out to ascertain what needs to stay, what needs to go, to get a LOAD of shelving installed at the far end, then to put everything that should stay back in. This had originally been planned as the big summer project for 2020 - but then 2020 happened instead.

Knowing that relocation is something that's at least on the horizon nowadays also kind of damps the enthusiasm to make a start on the job as well, especially as the lofts are in a similar state. I'd just as soon have a skip on hand to sift the junk into between the house and the van when we're moving stuff out of the house rather than have to move it all out to just put it back in again. Especially as I'm still going to be trying to fit a quart into a pint pot at the end of the day as this house just flat out does not have enough storage for the four of us.

I wouldn't say that today I actually tidied up, but I did bring some order to the chaos and mostly unbury the car to allow for this to happen.



Which made it far less of an uncomfortable job to reinstate the fuel pump as I wasn't trying to do the job all but laying on the roof as I was when I "borrowed" it for the Rover.



I really do need to pull that top fuel tank strap and put the closed cell foam strip I bought to fill out the of a gap at the top in there, that "I'll get back to that next week" bit of cardboard has been in there for something like four years now I think. I mean, it's doing the job just fine, but it don't half look sketchy and bugs me every time I open the cover. Unfortunately every time I then close said cover I then forget about it again after about 60 seconds until the next time I go to put fuel in or do a fluids check!

Really do want to have a proper crawl over the car before she actually goes on the road this year anyway and she's due a service anyway. I'll plan on getting that foam installed as part of that set of jobs.

As she was rolled back mostly out of the garage though, it would have been rude not to at least confirm whether the battery needed to be charged and if the carb was going to protest at being ignored for the last nine months.

Of course she only started first time and idled as though she was parked yesterday. Was left running for probably half an hour or so to get everything nicely warmed through while I ferried a lot of the tools and such like that had slowly migrated out of the garage over the last few months back to where they actually live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_nx6ymGN4g

Hopefully actually get her out on the road again this week.

The Rover - somewhat to my surprise - hasn't yet dumped large amounts of fuel all over my driveway. Not sure if I dare let it know I've noticed...

For I think the first time in my ownership the pump looks to be completely dry after sitting overnight. Kind of at the point where I need to actually start test driving it to see if it's going to continue cooperating. Which fills me with a certain amount of dread given its record so far for appearing to work perfectly right up till the point where I start relaxing and thinking the fuel system is behaving before deciding to NOT work very suddenly. It's not going to get any more reliable just sitting on the driveway though. That said, sorting the oil leak from the filter housing absolutely needs to happen before any real distance is covered on the road. That's not a difficult job...Six (I think) bolts, remove, clean up, replace gasket, prime oil pump, reassemble.



However access looks absolutely awful so I've been putting that off as I know it's just going to be one of those jobs which ends up testing my patience. Given how critical doing the job properly is to the oil pump actually working, it's really not one that you want to be doing with a frayed temper either.

The whole car also really needs a deep clean as there's moss growing basically everywhere.



A task which I'm sure is going to do a great job of reminding me how much of a small car that a P6 is not.

Oh, and I need to finish my investigations into what was going on with the Trabant before turning this pile of bits back into an engine.



Well I can't claim I'm not spoiled for choice on what to work on this week! The Partner is due an oil & filter change too.